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bad 3nt ATB

#1 User is offline   bftboy 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 11:51

MPs. -300. Fire away, there's plenty to shoot at.

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#2 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 12:01

I don't normally reply to these, but isn't it obvious the bad bid is North's second? South made a nonforcing call, and North has a minimal hand.
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#3 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 12:02

IMO north should pass 3.
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#4 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 12:02

2nt is much better than 3c, but 3c is not a major problem. north's 3d was absurd though - he should put dummy down and hope p has enough to make it.
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#5 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 12:09

View Postwank, on 2012-April-04, 12:02, said:

2nt is much better than 3c

Yes, I'd have the much better auction
1-1
2NT-3 (5+ hearts)
3-3NT

... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#6 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 13:46

north for not passing 3
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#7 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 13:49

Sorry to pile on, but I just do not understand why North would do anything other than pass over 3.
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#8 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 13:55

View Postwank, on 2012-April-04, 12:02, said:

2nt is much better than 3c, but 3c is not a major problem. north's 3d was absurd though - he should put dummy down and hope p has enough to make it.


Agree. After 2N there is some guessing here by North, but the hand is much better in a suit contract than any number of NT. Playing Wolff or transfers, I can get out in 3, or 3. I have a coin with a on one side and a on the other. If it lands on the edge, I will pass 2N, otherwise I will play 3 of that suit.

If partner rebid 3, I will obviously pass.
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#9 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 14:04

North's hand is worth one bid; he shot his bolt with 1. He should pass 3.

A 2NT rebid by South describes his strength and spread-out honors accurately, and his distribution somewhat accurately, but the problem with it is exactly what we see on this hand: no way to get to dummy because of the honor doubletons in the red suits. Because of that, I think that 3 is a better rebid than 2NT.
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#10 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 14:58

100% blame to North who has an obvious pass of 3.
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#11 User is offline   HighLow21 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 16:15

To me 3 is not a good bid. It implies more playing tricks in a club contract, with or without the 17+ HCP. It also tends to imply an unbalanced hand. Here, we're semi-balanced with 18-19. 2NT rebid. What's the problem?

That said, North's failure to pass 3 is unforgivably bad. To me it is typical of weak players who REFUSE to believe the evidence of the auction thus far.
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#12 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 19:59

View PostHighLow21, on 2012-April-04, 16:15, said:

To me 3 is not a good bid. It implies more playing tricks in a club contract, with or without the 17+ HCP. It also tends to imply an unbalanced hand.


3C is 15-18 with 6 clubs. Pretty much unplayable to play it as 17+.

I dont mind 3C. Also dont mind 2N. On this hand 3C will work out better, as partner will pass, whereas he might well bid over 2N.
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#13 User is offline   bftboy 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 20:45

N certainly should pass 3, bidding again is a huge and obvious error. It's closer whether N should pass 2nt if that were the call; I have more sympathy for a 3 call here. And it's close between 2nt and 3, IMO. 2nt is probably the better mp bid.

But is everyone agreed that 1 over 1 is a sound call? It's not a matter of having only 5 hcp. It's a matter of having them in two bad suits and being very awkwardly placed if P does anything other than raise or reverse into . I'd pass.
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#14 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 20:57

View Postbftboy, on 2012-April-04, 20:45, said:


But is everyone agreed that 1 over 1 is a sound call?


1 won't get a lot of criticism. At least around here.
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#15 User is offline   frank0 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 20:58

N pass 3 as others say.
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#16 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 21:16

View Postbillw55, on 2012-April-04, 12:02, said:

IMO north should pass 3.


I agree 100% but South should definitely bid 3 instead of 3nt.

The 3 bid was horrible and a heart game should go down but not -300 and has an outside shot of making.
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#17 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 21:21

View Postwank, on 2012-April-04, 12:02, said:

2nt is much better than 3c, but 3c is not a major problem. north's 3d was absurd though - he should put dummy down and hope p has enough to make it.


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#18 User is offline   BillPatch 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 21:27

View PostHighLow21, on 2012-April-04, 16:15, said:

To me 3 is not a good bid. It implies more playing tricks in a club contract, with or without the 17+ HCP. It also tends to imply an unbalanced hand. Here, we're semi-balanced with 18-19. 2NT rebid. What's the problem?

That said, North's failure to pass 3 is unforgivably bad. To me it is typical of weak players who REFUSE to believe the evidence of the auction thus far.

Well, well. Partnership desk paired you up with the Rueful Rabbit again. Still, in Holy Week it is improper to preach
hellfire and damnation(unforgivable sin) just because partner plays like a novice. Repent.

SJ Simon and Augie Boehm have written on how to play with inferior players. I have nothing to add there.

"What's the problem?" Assuming instead we picked up the same hand with a good partner. The problem with the opening 1 and
then showing 2NT is that it is an underbid. If we had Q10x AQX KJx AQ10x, the same hand without the long suit,
we would have a maximum 2NT rebid. The two long cards in the good club suit rate an upgrade to a maximum 2NT opener.

After North uses Jacoby and rebids 3NT over this. 2NT pass 3pass 3pass 3NT pass ? , Marty Bergen recommends playing
in the 7 card fit heart game, because South does not have an entrey to the suppose K fifth heart suit. 4 is a better contract
than 3NT, but i expect it gets 0 mp for down 2 doubled.
If one instead shows the weaker 1then 2NT North should pass unless a signoff is avaiable(Wolff signoff in BWS and most 2 over 1),
others may use transfers to sign off.
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#19 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2012-April-05, 06:59

View PostBillPatch, on 2012-April-04, 21:27, said:

Well, well. Partnership desk paired you up with the Rueful Rabbit again. Still, in Holy Week it is improper to preach
hellfire and damnation(unforgivable sin) just because partner plays like a novice. Repent.

SJ Simon and Augie Boehm have written on how to play with inferior players. I have nothing to add there.

"What's the problem?" Assuming instead we picked up the same hand with a good partner. The problem with the opening 1 and
then showing 2NT is that it is an underbid. If we had Q10x AQX KJx AQ10x, the same hand without the long suit,
we would have a maximum 2NT rebid. The two long cards in the good club suit rate an upgrade to a maximum 2NT opener.

Ah, a budding bridge author? I look forward to your upcoming publications :)

I don't agree with your reasoning though. The long cards in clubs increase the value of that suit, but also creates short suit honors in the reds which reduces their value a little. So I don't think 2NT opening is the best description of this hand. Not terrible, just not best.

Personally, I would open 1 and rebid 3. Close second choice 1 - 2NT. Opening 2NT would be a distant 3rd choice.
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#20 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2012-April-05, 07:07

View Postbftboy, on 2012-April-04, 20:45, said:

But is everyone agreed that 1 over 1 is a sound call? It's not a matter of having only 5 hcp. It's a matter of having them in two bad suits and being very awkwardly placed if P does anything other than raise or reverse into . I'd pass.

You'd be in a very small minority if you passed.
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