[whereagles]

Matchpoints, all vuln, you hold:

♠ Ax
♥ Kx
♦ JTxxxxx
♣ Qx

Pard you
1♥ 1NT
2♣ ...?

1. Agree with 1NT? (The other option was 2♦ game forcing.)
2. Having bid 1NT, what do you bid now? (Playing natural.)

[PMetsch]

1. yes
2. 2♥, though the hand is very good

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

1) Yes
2) 2NT

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Gerben42]

Yes and 3♦

[Double !]

1) agree

2) 3 diamonds

[Chamaco]

1. yes,
although after reading hrothgar's post I might consider a direct 2H = constructive raise, stealing one card in hearts.
the one thing I will never bid is 2H after 1NT forcing.

If I have to land in 2H I do not want to do it via an ambiguous sequence reached after 1NT forcing, when opener might not kknow whether I have 3 card support and a bust, or a constructive hand with a doubleton.

There was a similar argument in one of Marshall Miles books I think (or was it Danny Kleinman? I forgot) about raising immediately 2M with 10 hcp and Hx support rather than using 1NT forcing.



2. 2NT

[Jurek S]

Don't know and don't know
3♦ is defined as 10-12 VERY good suit. So partner is likely misevaluate.
Would you really play this hand in NT ? especially in face of 5431 ?

Waiting for yours analysis

[hrothgar]

VERY nasty problem...

1. The hand is not strong enough for a game forcing 2♦. 1NT seems like the most reasonable bid.

2. The hand revalues slightly after the 2♣ rebid. The Queen of Clubs is suddenly looking like a real card...

3. 2♦, 2♥, and 2N are all plausible rebids. I can see decent arguments in favor of each one.

2♦ emphasises the most prominant feature of the hand. The Diamond suit is worth a lot more in a Diamond contract than in Hearts or NT. The problem with 2♦ is that it grossly understates your strength.

2♥ is typically used as a two-way bid, showing either a very weak 3 card raise (10 losers or so) or a constructive values with 2 card support.

2NT shows a game invite in NT. This rebid really does a nice job showing your strength.

I prefer 2♥ to 2NT. You have a lot of controls (Ace of Spades, King of Hearts) which suggest a suit contract. The Spade suit could be a big problem for you in NT. Both of these suggest a Heart contract. Equally significant, 2NT NEVER scores well and partner really won't have the right information to make an intelligent decision regarding whether or not to bid 3N.

[Gerben42]

Quote

3♦ is defined as 10-12 VERY good suit.

Where? I think it's defined as an invitational hand with long ♦. If you bid 2♥ or 2NT you are giving up
what might very likely be the best strain (you know, the suit where more than half of your cards are?).

[inquiry]

The problem here is you are not playing Riton 2♣, where you open minimal hands with ♥ + ♣ with 2♥, so that this 2♣ rebid would show extra values (but not necessarily clubs). Here parntner might have two clubs and six hearts, or 5-5 in the two suits and weak. Sigh....

Ok, this hand has three useful cards. The textbook bid I think (at least the ones I go by) is 2♥. I see no reason not to bid that. I also see a lot of reasons to reconsider my methods.

[Jurek S]

I'm still using http://www.annam.co.uk/ 2/1 as reference. Is there any better description of SAYC or 2/1 standards BBO ?
And 2♥ rebid could be 3-6 with 3♥ also (and I think 80% of all)
After all I'm 2NT bidder

[david_c]

inquiry, on Sep 16 2005, 01:17 PM, said:

The problem here is you are not playing Riton 2♣, where  you open minimal hands with ♥ + ♣ with 2♥, so that this 2♣ rebid would show extra values (but not necessarily clubs). Here parntner might have two clubs and six hearts, or 5-5 in the two suits and weak. Sigh....

Surely you have a similar problem playing Riton 2♣ on this hand: how would you respond to a 2♥ opening?

[pigpenz]

i would bid 2nt, like the K♥
would rather be pushy with the 2NT bid then lie about the 2♦call

[hrothgar]

inquiry, on Sep 16 2005, 03:17 PM, said:

The problem here is you are not playing Riton 2♣, where you open minimal hands with ♥ + ♣ with 2♥, so that this 2♣ rebid would show extra values (but not necessarily clubs). Here parntner might have two clubs and six hearts, or 5-5 in the two suits and weak. Sigh....

What the hell are you talking about?

Whereagles asked a good question about a textbook bidding sequence... It would be useful to constrain your answers to the same base system. There are variants of the forcing NT in which opener will rebid a two card club suit in preference to a 3 card Diamond holding. Matula's version of Polish Club is a text book example. However, we're not playing this here so we can pretty much rule out a 2 card club suit. Equally significant, even playing Polish Club, you don't show a 2 card club suit in preference to a six card Heart suit.

[inquiry]

david_c, on Sep 16 2005, 08:33 AM, said:

inquiry, on Sep 16 2005, 01:17 PM, said:

The problem here is you are not playing Riton 2♣, where  you open minimal hands with ♥ + ♣ with 2♥, so that this 2♣ rebid would show extra values (but not necessarily clubs). Here parntner might have two clubs and six hearts, or 5-5 in the two suits and weak. Sigh....

Surely you have a similar problem playing Riton 2♣ on this hand: how would you respond to a 2♥ opening?

Pass... now I know partner is WEAK...

The problem with a 2♥ bid on the given auction, is if partner is weak with six hearts, he would rebid 2♥. If he is weak with three clubs and five hearts, he will rebid 2♣. But he can be fairly strong for 2♣ as well. And when I bid 2♥ over 2♣, he doesn't know if I have this hand, or the same type hand with three small spades and one less diamond, for instance.

So the advantage, as it was, with Riton 2♣ is when partner opens 2♥ I know where the hand belongs.

Let's take it a step further, lets assume I am playing ritong 2♣ and partner opens 1♥ and rebids 2♣. Now I bid 2♦. This doesn't show ♦, this waits to hear what partner does. If he rebids 2♥ or 3♥, I bid 4♥. If he rebids 2NT, I bid 3NT. If he rebids 3♣, I rebid a forcing 3♦. If he rebids 3♦ I am thinking of possible slam. The bidding becomes much easier and descriptive.

[Fluffy]

2♥ is probably the correct one, but I always overbid and would try 3♦

[SoTired]

1) 1N - Part of 2/1 system. If you don't have GF hand, you bid forcing 1N. An initial 2H constructive raise has some appeal
2) 2H or 3D
2H = 6-10 with 2 card support (you have that) or <8 with 3 card support. this is the pessimist bid. This gets you to the most likely making partial, but loses any game chances.
3D = 10-12 with 6+ diam - Optimist bid. Gives you game chances, but if partner has no diam honors, 2H is more likely making. Let's partner bid 3N with diam honors or extra strength.
I don't like 2N because it hides your diam suit and is a poor final contract.
3H would be wrong. If you want raise hearts, do it initially with a constructive 2H. Doing it now is an big overbid. Like you were shocked when partner rebid 2C?

[pclayton]

Over 2♣, I try 2♥ at MPs.

At IMPs, I bid 2 1/2 ♦.

[Al_U_Card]

Does a 3D rebid deny Hx in Hearts? When pard is a real mini, playing in the 6-1 or 2 fit may be right and btw, you know you're getting a S lead in NT.....