[sceptic]

This may not suprise some of you, but I have only really started to take into account (playing sayc only) responding bids as a passed hand.

the example I will use is this

pass................................................................ pass ......1 spade .............................................pass
2 clubs (I only had 4 clubs)(also shows 10hcp+). pass ...2 hearts (shows min hand 5/4 dist min).pass

3 spades (I had 11 hcp and 3 spades, this hand I declined to open, I will have to dig it out the archives if you need to see it)

I am not continuing with the rest of the bidding as the part I am interested is, does my jump to spades definately show 3 spade support and max hand for a pass possibly 11 hcp

also does this bidding make sense (let assume you agree with my decision to pass)?

I did consider seriously 2 spades NOT 3 spades, but considered this may show 2 spades only, also I thought that if he had a maximum minimum (sounds good) he may bid 4 spades and the ball is in partners court.

[joker_gib]

If you don't play Drury, 2♣ is non forcing and must show at least 5♣ and no ♠ fit

Alain

[sceptic]

Quote

If you don't play Drury, 2♣ is non forcing and must show at least 5♣ and no ♠ fit

assume no drury how do you bid this?

me and my p have spent some time trying to get a proper understanding together of our systems, we expect the odd area of confusion, but we would like to get it together eventually

[joker_gib]

If you don't play Drury, you have no choice and have to bid it as if it was not a passed hand.

Alain

[sceptic]

is drury the only option for a passed responder, or are there other conventions that cater for 3rd , 4th hand openers

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

do make live simpler, I would suggest, that you treat a 2 over 1
by a passed hand the similiar to a 2 over 1 made by a non passed
hand, i.e.

Pass - Pass - 1S - Pass
2C (1) ...

(1) shows 4 clubs, promising a 2nd bid

Opener can pass, if he really believes 2C is best,
but he wont do that very often

With kind regards
Marlowe

[barmar]

sceptic, on Oct 5 2005, 10:22 AM, said:

is drury the only option for a passed responder, or are there other conventions that cater for 3rd , 4th hand openers

There are also fit-showing jumps. In this case, P-1♠-3♦ would show a diamond suit and spade support. If you normally play weak jump shifts, the theory is that you would have opened 2♦ if you just had a weak hand with long diamonds, so a passed hand can't have that. (Personally, I disagree with this, because my standards for a weak 2 are different from those for a weak jump shift.)

Bergen raises are also still a possibility for passed hands.

[Trpltrbl]

I think you bid it correct, if not playing drury.
3♠ would have shown a 4th♠ and so would Bergen if you would play that by passed hand.
Therefore you showed good 10+ hand, but already passed hand, with 3♠.

GBB

[Winstonm]

I would add: learn and use Drury and use it in most sequences.

[mike777]

sceptic, on Oct 5 2005, 10:22 AM, said:

is drury the only option for a passed responder, or are there other conventions that cater for 3rd , 4th hand openers

I have stopped using drury and never miss it 100%.

1) partner will seldom have a limit raise hand as a passed hand.
2) the opp need to be silent
3) you can still use old fashion Bergen to show a 4 card limit raise when they come up and constructive raise with 3 card support.

Note need to change system, remember one more convention and lose a natural bid. 3 great reasons to not play drury.

[han]

The way most of my partners open in third seat, I would hate it if I needed to make a Bergen raise. Drury is a must in these partnerships.

[mike777]

Great forum where you get two opposite posts on a basic question .

Of course in 4th seat opening 15 pearson points getting to 3 level should not be an issue with a 4 card limit raise and silent opps.

In third seat if partner is opening lite, they should have shape, I hope, so again getting to the 3 level should not be an issue. Again for me a 4 card limit raise as a passed hand and opp being silent is very rare thing and I think we are stealing the hand if we are not making.

[sceptic]

I play drury as 2C = 10+ and 4 support and 2D as 10+ and 3 sipport,

just not in this partnership

[Gerben42]

Quote

1) partner will seldom have a limit raise hand as a passed hand.
2) the opp need to be silent
3) you can still use old fashion Bergen to show a 4 card limit raise when they come up and constructive raise with 3 card support.

@1: If you have a minimum hand the HCP are likely to be quite even around the table, giving partner a? Right! Limit raise!

@2: Sometimes they are. Can't rely on them bidding all the time, can you?

@3: But what do you do with a 3-card raise. Wouldn't be the first time to see the auction:

North: Pass
South: 1♠
North: 2♦
South: Pass
North: &$@!

Read Mike Lawrence's book on passed hand bidding. Reread it.

Bonus tip: If you have an invitational hand with 6+♣ you bid 2NT after partner's 1M!

[helene_t]

Playing 2/1, you can respond 1NT with 11 points and no fit. If you don't play Drury, you can play 2♣ as 5+ so you don't mind partner passing with a doubleton. With a 3-card fit, bid 1NT if you're too strong for a raise. But since a raise in 2/1 is 8-10, this happens only when you have exactly 11 HCPs.

However, it makes little sense to play 2/1 without Drury, since a natural 2♣ bid with less than GF values opposite a normal opening will create confusion about which subsequent bids are forcing.

Playing SAYC, you do the same. Acording to "learn to play bridge", opener adds 1 HCPs for the 5-card major so if he passes 1NT he won't have 14 HCPs.

With 4-card support you have to make a limit raise (or Bergen).

[mike777]

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I guess this is the hand type or the rare 4 card major opening that Drury players are worried about playing at the 3 level. I just think this is not a big enough issue to worry about.