[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     Pass  1♣
 Pass  1♥    Pass  1NT
 2♣    2♥    Pass  Pass
 Pass  


I was inclined to bid 1NT for two reasons it describes my hand hcp wise and also does it infer anyway that I have a spade stop and may prevent a spade lead?

[cherdano]

The 1NT rebid is fine. You should never rebid a club suit like this if you have a good alternative.

I would double 2♣ for penalty with North.

[inquiry]

Once you open this hand 1♣, you are committed (I think) to a 1NT rebid over partners 1M response. Two other possibilities exist: Don't open at all, or open 1♦ (prepared) planning on rebidding 2♣.I think I would most often have passed with this hand due to the lack of reasoable rebid.

It is not entirely clear why your partner choose to rebid 2♥ with a fitting ♣ honor and a horrible suit you failed to raise.

Ben

[mr1303]

Agree with Ben here, opening this hand is icky. But once you decided to do that, 1NT is your only rebid

[mikeh]

Opening or passing is a style question: this is such an ugly hand that you may well choose to pass. Jacks are overvalued at 1 hcp, on any rational scale. KJ tight is not a 4 point holding, the suit texture rules out a 2♣ rebid, etc, etc. OTOH, if you pass and partner opens, say, 1♥, you will have trouble again (especially if you play any fit-showing version of Drury... the original drury convention did not promise a fit, so would work here, but I don't know anyone who plays it that way nowadays. I find that problem (after passing) too tough, so I prefer to open and rebid 1N.

Note that in modern bidding, few players promise a ♠ stopper on this auction: nt is a description of size and shape, not stopper showing.

I do NOT think that partner can double 2♣. Whether he should bid 2♥ is a different issue. I tend to think not. Opener may be able to reopen with 2♥ with decent 3 card support and not much in ♣. Otherwise, I would be very afraid that 4th chair holds 4 good ♥ (the 2♣ bidder will usually hold a 6 card suit, maximizing the chances of a bad break).

If 1N could bypass a ♠ suit in a balanced hand, then you might hold only 3♣

Even in you bid up the line, your 1N shows only 4♣, such that North should be thinking that EW have a potential 7 card fit with roughly half the deck: where are the odds in doubling this contract?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

1 NT does not promise a spade stopper,
and 1 NT will not deter opponents to lead
spade.
Why? You denied 4 cards, responder will have
at most 4 cards in spade, so a spade lead stands
out from the bidding. (*)
And even if 1 NT would promise a stopper,
... the spade attack, will kill the stopper.

(*) That does not mean spade will be lead, but
it will always be a alterntive.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Walddk]

Agree with the 1NT rebid. Don't agree with North's 2♥. Pass looks pretty clear to me.

Roland

[han]

Agree with 1NT, schocked to hear that Ben would pass.

[tysen2k]

Hannie, on Oct 4 2005, 12:54 PM, said:

Agree with 1NT, schocked to hear that Ben would pass.

Ditto.

[helene_t]

It's interesting that nobody opens 1♦ on this hand, since that used to be the correct opening in SA. Has the insight changed?

I agree with your bidding. As others have noted, the 2♥ bid is wrong. Either pass or double. If your 1NT rebid denies a 4-card spades, I think double is fine. Otherwise pass.

[Walddk]

helene_t, on Oct 5 2005, 10:15 AM, said:

It's interesting that nobody opens 1♦ on this hand, since that used to be the correct opening in SA. Has the insight changed?

Ben actually mentioned that option, but I am happy to see that he didn't go for it. It's 1♣ to me and a 1NT rebid over 1MA by partner.

Roland

[Jurek S]

Once you prefered 1♣ over 1♦ 1NT is clear. 2♥ by N is crazy.

[Brandal]

cherdano, on Oct 4 2005, 12:23 PM, said:

The 1NT rebid is fine. You should never rebid a club suit like this if you have a good alternative.

I would double 2♣ for penalty with North.

I was East here.

Anyone for a 1S overcall?

I would have bid 2S without the 2H rebid tho.

Is that "wrong"?

[P_Marlowe]

Brandal, on Oct 5 2005, 04:14 AM, said:

cherdano, on Oct 4 2005, 12:23 PM, said:

The 1NT rebid is fine. You should never rebid a club suit like this if you have a good alternative.

I would double 2♣ for penalty with North.

I was East here.

Anyone for a 1S overcall?

I would have bid 2S without the 2H rebid tho.

Is that "wrong"?

Hi,

- a 1S overcall is ugly, but you hold the spades.

- a 2S overcall is fine, it is even necesarry, if you
dont overcall 1S in the first place, partner will
expect this suit quality, because you did not overcall
1S

Marlowe

[Brandal]

P_Marlowe, on Oct 5 2005, 06:35 AM, said:

Brandal, on Oct 5 2005, 04:14 AM, said:

cherdano, on Oct 4 2005, 12:23 PM, said:

The 1NT rebid is fine. You should never rebid a club suit like this if you have a good alternative.

I would double 2♣ for penalty with North.

I was East here.

Anyone for a 1S overcall?

I would have bid 2S without the 2H rebid tho.

Is that "wrong"?

Hi,

- a 1S overcall is ugly, but you hold the spades.

- a 2S overcall is fine, it is even necesarry, if you
dont overcall 1S in the first place, partner will
expect this suit quality, because you did not overcall
1S

Marlowe

thx,that was my reasoning at the table too

[inquiry]

Hannie, on Oct 4 2005, 04:54 PM, said:

Agree with 1NT, schocked to hear that Ben would pass.

I am a notorious light opener. I alert this fact each round when I play. Yet this hand hardly screams "open me."

I rule out a 1♦ opening bid, in part because I have no reasonable rebid. I prefer to open my long suits. So that leaves 1♣ and pass. If you open 1♣, you must rebid 1NT over partners 1M response (you can raise to 2♦ over 1♦. I don't mind rebidding 1NT over 1♥ with this hand, so open, don't open is not based rebid problem per se.

Question is, is that hand an opening bid? Mikeh discussed the fact that Jx and KJ are not worth the 5 points it look lke they show. My two "anchor suit" are not very good Ace-nine-empty and QJxx. This doesn't look like a good hand. Even if you follow ZAR light opening style, this hand has 27 ZAR points before subtractions for doubleton JACKS (subtract one point each)....lowering it to 25 ZARS.

It should not be a surpirse that pass should at least be considered strongly as a possibility. There is a second problem, we are VUL at imps. Partner will "STRETCH" to bid game if we are close to game values. This is NOT the hand you want him stetching to reach game opposite if you open. But if you are responder, having passed initially, you would be delighted if he stretched to reach game. Considering it is imps, you are vul, this is the perfect time to pass with this hand.

Ben

[Al_U_Card]

inquiry, on Oct 5 2005, 08:05 AM, said:

Hannie, on Oct 4 2005, 04:54 PM, said:

Agree with 1NT, schocked to hear that Ben would pass.

I am a notorious light opener. I alert this fact each round when I play. Yet this hand hardly screams "open me."

I am NOT a light hand opener and would never open this hand, because it is a minus waiting to happen. Granted, hands that you want to "get off your chest" may be opened light etc. but this hand is, at best, an invitational type holding.

Remember, pard can have his say and if the opps own the hand then you can be glad that you didn't give them an opportunity to hurt you. If it is your hand, it will be because pard has something to say and you can support his efforts appropriately as a passed hand......

[Al_U_Card]

Besides, on this auction, surely some wests would dbl instead, and when H is rebid they have a couple of options, none of which are fun for you......

[P_Marlowe]

Brandal, on Oct 5 2005, 07:13 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Oct 5 2005, 06:35 AM, said:

Brandal, on Oct 5 2005, 04:14 AM, said:

cherdano, on Oct 4 2005, 12:23 PM, said:

The 1NT rebid is fine. You should never rebid a club suit like this if you have a good alternative.

I would double 2♣ for penalty with North.

I was East here.

Anyone for a 1S overcall?

I would have bid 2S without the 2H rebid tho.

Is that "wrong"?

Hi,

- a 1S overcall is ugly, but you hold the spades.

- a 2S overcall is fine, it is even necesarry, if you
dont overcall 1S in the first place, partner will
expect this suit quality, because you did not overcall
1S

Marlowe

thx,that was my reasoning at the table too

Hi,

I forgot to mention, that 2S, even after a 2H bid, is still ok,
this concept is a kind of pre balanceing, you know, that the auction
will die, if you pass 2H, 1NT was limited, 2H was limited =>
opener will pass 2H.

With kind regards
Marlowe