[samsing]

Hi all

My partner presented me with a convention a couple of days ago, and I'm not sure
if its useful or not. I cant find any information on it by googling.

Its called Couleur (french for color??)

Any jump to 4♣ ask pard to show the color of his aces.

4♦ = 0 aces
4♥ = 1 red
4♠ = 1 black
4NT = 1 red, 1 black
5♣ = 2 black
5♦ = 2 red
5♥ = 2 red, 1 black
5♠ = 2 black, 1 red

I supposed it ruins the opportunity to use Gerber.

Any thoughts ?

Jorgen

PS: were both rookies so no cuebids, trelde or any other fancy stuff on our systemcard

[Gerben42]

In principle a good idea I guess, although a bit space-consuming as it is now.
The Norwegians use "Crash", which works like this:

4♣ in your example is the ace ask then:

4♦ = One
4♥ = Three
4♠ = Zero or Four
4NT = Two aces of the same Color (red or black)
4♣ = Two aces of the same RAnk (majors or minors)
5♦ = Two aces of the same SHape (round = ♣♥, pointy = ♦♠)

I hope you see where C RA SH comes from
After 4♦ you ask with 4♥ which ace partner has.
After 4♥ you ask with 4♠ which ace partner does NOT have.

But in most cases you don't need that part.

IMPORTANT - how often would you use it - and is your energy not better used for some other things?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I think, its a waste of mental energy,
because the opportunity to use it
wont come up often.

And since you dont play fancy stuff
like cue bidding, which is a common
part of slam bidding, why start playing
some more eccentric stuff.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[han]

It ruins the opportunity of using Gerber?

Then I'm no longer interested.

[Echognome]

Hannie, on Oct 12 2005, 05:04 PM, said:

It ruins the opportunity of using Gerber?

Then I'm no longer interested.

Perhaps the BIL forum is not the best place for sarcasm.

Clearly you want to be using rolling keycard Gerber.

[Al_U_Card]

Hannie, on Oct 12 2005, 11:04 AM, said:

It ruins the opportunity of using Gerber?

Then I'm no longer interested.

You mean the baby food?

[Al_U_Card]

Echognome, on Oct 12 2005, 11:23 AM, said:

Hannie, on Oct 12 2005, 05:04 PM, said:

It ruins the opportunity of using Gerber?

Then I'm no longer interested.

Perhaps the BIL forum is not the best place for sarcasm.

Clearly you want to be using rolling keycard Gerber.

Rolling (progressive) 6-keycard Gerber?

[mike777]

Al_U_Card, on Oct 12 2005, 03:15 PM, said:

Echognome, on Oct 12 2005, 11:23 AM, said:

Hannie, on Oct 12 2005, 05:04 PM, said:

It ruins the opportunity of using Gerber?

Then I'm no longer interested.

Perhaps the BIL forum is not the best place for sarcasm.

Clearly you want to be using rolling keycard Gerber.

Rolling (progressive) 6-keycard Gerber?

Eureka!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks I knew this must be the missing piece to my game.
Why did I waste all my time rereading Lawrence and Reese.

[mikeh]

I would not advise a convention which uses up so much bidding space and also takes away a potentially useful 4♣ call.

I am not a frequent user of gerber (I use it only in a very few, defined auctions), but jumps to 4♣ can have other uses: a splinter is an obvious and valuable one.

I also think that if you are just starting out (and I hope you get as much enjoyment from your exploration of this game as I have), there are far, far more effective ways to use your resources.

I remember my early days, when gadgets were very attractive. My small group 'invented' splinters (only to learn that others had invented them decades earlier). Other devices we developed were less sound

I would strongly recommend getting a good book on a solid, modern (but not weird) approach: approximating whatever the bulk of the 'good' players in your area use. In this way, you can usefully ask questions of the better players and gain insight. Using unique methods makes it difficult to get a good discussion going.

BTW, be very, very selective of who you ask for advice: you want the very best players, and in my experience, so long as they are not being asked questions every day, most experts are flattered to be asked and will willingly help out.

Asking several players, especially of even slightly differing skill/experience levels runs the risk of getting inconsistent answers. There are usually a number of valid ways to treat certain hands or sequences: learning consistency in your approach is better than trying (at this stage of your game) to decide which one of several varying schools of thought you should use.

Best wishes.

[FrancesHinden]

I also agree with Mike.
But I would add that asking a larger selection of people (for example, on these forums) can be a good way of discovering what is standard & accepted, and what is eccentricity.

If 90% of the (reasonably good) people you ask say the same thing, then you can be pretty certain they reflect what might be called "expert standard".

If you get a range of different answers, then it's likely that there isn't a standard, or that it's a difficult problem.

If you only ask one person, you will get their view of things. Even if they are trying to be helpful and unbiased, there are plenty of very good players around who may, for example, not know what is normal in e.g. Standard American because they've never played it.

[samsing]

Thanks all !!

I found what I was looking for - either a lot of pro's or a lot of con's - Based on all the cons the convention clearly won't do much use, so I'll try to convince my partner to throw it in the garbage

We're still not skilled enough to use splinterbids, but in time, the "Couleur" shouldn't stand in the way of introducing them

But I'd like to hear a little more about Keycard Gerber. What is that. Something like RKC ?

Jorgen

[mike777]

samsing, on Oct 14 2005, 04:18 PM, said:

Thanks all !!

I found what I was looking for - either a lot of pro's or a lot of con's - Based on all the cons the convention clearly won't do much use, so I'll try to convince my partner to throw it in the garbage

We're still not skilled enough to use splinterbids, but in time, the "Couleur" shouldn't stand in the way of introducing them

But I'd like to hear a little more about Keycard Gerber. What is that. Something like RKC ?

Jorgen

Welcome to forum and best wishes in your bridge game.

In order of learning priority.
1) Count and visualize opp hands.
2) See above
10) Splinters
100,000) keycard gerber

[mikeh]

mike777, on Oct 14 2005, 04:29 PM, said:

In order of learning priority.
1) Count and visualize opp hands.
2) See above
10) Splinters
100,000) keycard gerber

I think you rank keycard gerber way too high

(and I play it!)