[cnszsun]

Txx
AQxxx
You need to get four tricks.
I thought one way to play is: finesseing Q at first round and cashing A at next round; another way to play is: cashing A first, then play small to Q.
My instinct thought, these two ways have the same percentage, because even if you catch LHO's stiff Jack or King, you still can't make 4 tricks. But when i checked suitplay, i found finesseing Q first is not listed as an winning option. Am i missing something? Thanks in advance.

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

Am i missing something?

Stiff K with RHO ...

I guess since you are never going for 5 tricks (which requires KJ onside, but RHO will falsecard the K), you might as well cash the ace & not lose the extra trick to stiff K offside.

[Double !]

Stephen Tu, on Nov 1 2005, 05:03 PM, said:

Quote

Am i missing something?

Stiff K with RHO ...

I guess since you are never going for 5 tricks (which requires KJ onside, but RHO will falsecard the K), you might as well cash the ace & not lose the extra trick to stiff K offside.

Just for the sake of clarification, are you saying that cashing the ace and then, assuming that both opps play x, leading low to the queen is the percentage play in this suit? If so, that's been my instinctive way of playing the suit, but always willing to learn a better way.

tx

DHL

[Stephen Tu]

If you can arrange it conveniently it can't hurt to lead from dummy and see if RHO errs by playing the J from KJ, you can then play the Q and ace without giving up anything. If RHO plays low though you should play the ace then lead toward the Q later (if RHO plays low a second time, it's a tossup whether to duck or play Q, go on other clues if any).

If RHO plays the K, then your line depends on whether you need the safety play for 4 or are going for mp-best, or imp-maximizing if this is just for an overtrick.

[sdoty]

Exactly in keeping w/ the previous posts, from Roudinesco's "Dictionary of Suit Combinations":

Lead towards South.
* If the jack appears from East, finesse the queen and cash the ace.
* If the king appears from East, win with the ace and cash the queen -- assuming that East always falsecards from doubleton KJ. If you think he wouldn't, lead to the T if the K appears from East on the first round of the suit.
* If a spot card appears from East, win the ace and lead towards South. If the second spot appears from E, either duck or play the queen.

5 tricks = ~3% 4 tricks = ~44% 3 tricks = ~40%


* * * * * * *

As to why there's a difference between cashing the ace and leading up to the queen vs finessing the queen first, I'm not sure. :-) But doesn't finessing first give up on the chance of guessing Kx offside right?

......Txx

Kx...........Jxx

......AQxxx

[cnszsun]

sdoty, on Nov 1 2005, 10:18 PM, said:

As to why there's a difference between cashing the ace and leading up to the queen vs finessing the queen first, I'm not sure.  :-)  But doesn't finessing first give up on the chance of guessing Kx offside right?

This is exactly what confuse me. When two spot cards has appeared from your right side, no matter you put Q or duck, it should be the same percentage. You can't gain extra chances by delaying your guess. Finesseing Q first round just means you make your guess one round earlier (guessing LHO Jx, not Kx), Am i right?

[Stephen Tu]

In terms of success/fail for getting 4 tricks, finessing the Q is equivalent to cashing the ace when RHO follows low.

But it's just silly to do so & get only 2 tricks when LHO has the stiff K. Finessing the Q doesn't gain you anything, so why go down 2 instead of 1 even if you needed 4 tricks?
An imp is an imp ....