[Al_U_Card]

mikeh, on Nov 18 2005, 03:36 PM, said:

3N

I voted for 4NT, as even a NV slam at Imps is pretty desirable. At MP I would agree, but I only play IMPS online and have relatively little "feel" for it.

[Echognome]

Winstonm, on Nov 18 2005, 06:44 PM, said:

Mark Lair gave me some great advice years ago; he said to never get excited about Jxxx as trump support. So even the knowledge that partner has 4 diamonds doesn't do anyting for me.

And holding 33 HCP does not guarantee 12 tricks; it only guarantees that the opponents' won't have two cashing Aces.

I've talked myself into 3N on this group - making 6?

Winston

I guess it wasn't clear from the post(s). *I* have shown 4 diamonds along the way, not partner. If I bid 4NT, he will evaluate *his* hand in the knowledge that *I* have 4+ diamonds. I don't see why we can call Jxxx support.

I tend to agree with the general sentiment here. My hand is a bad 17 and the spade bid turns it off even more. I'm not sure I could quite make the non-forcing 3NT bid, but perhaps 4NT to get partner involved makes sense. I agree with those that posted hands where 6NT has no play, but I'm sure we could also easily come up with hands where 6NT is fairly cold. I think it's a close call between 3NT and 4NT. I'm an optimistic 4NTer. (although in actuality I was an insane 6NTer who happened to get lucky. LOL)

[Kalvan14]

I'd like to investigate a bit more, before either signing off in 3NT or lobbing back the vball to pard. I'd assume there is some way in the system to furthe explore opener's distribution.
At worst (assume we are in a pick-up partnership, I would bid 5NT (which is a lil more invitational than 4NT - are we 100% sure that N will not read 4NT as RKC agreeing spades, btw? ). There is even the chance that pard has a brainstorm on this, and bids a 4-card minor at 6 level

[Blofeld]

5NT should be forcing to 6NT and invitational to a grand, Kalvan.

[Robert]

Hello everyone

I do like the three Aces, however, everything else about this hand is just plain ugly.

I have assorted slam methods over 1NT to find various type slams. They also carry a 'warning' that holding 'only' a combined 31/32 HCPs 'even' one jack in the hand is a possible 'warning' sign. Holding two or three Jacks is normally a 'Red' light.

Assuming that it was late in a match and I felt that we really needed a swing, I might trot out one of my 'toys.'

I have only asked a team captain one time 'if' he wanted us to swing. We were down 'big time' at the half way mark and the other team(three pros and crazy lady) had mopped up the floor with us in the first half.

He relied, "Just play bridge." The crazy lady's results returned to their usual silly scores and 'normal' bridge returned everything 'plus' a few more wining IMPs.

I have seen too many times where swinging(when a team was not really behind) pairs/teams just 'shot themselves in the foot.'

You made a lucky decision to just bash the slam. The percentage bid here is to bid 3NT or 'gamble' with some slam invite.

Regards,
Robert

[Robert]

Hello Kalvan14

Brofeld posted the standard meaning for 1NT-5NT. Invites 7NT and forces 6NT.

A pickup partner might have a problem with 1NT-2C-2S-4NT as RKC.

The conditions of contest for the problem stated 'something' about the stronger team was our team. If it was not stated, the biding methods used strongly suggested that this was a regular partnership.

In my methods, it is impossible for 4NT to be RKC. With a balanced hand,
1NT-3H*(CONFIT) shows a combined 31+HCPS and asks for his control total, later for suits, and 'still later' for the number of the top three trump honors.

With an unbalanced hand, transfers or 'shape showing' bids would be used to bid any slam range hand.

I very rarely use RKC in my methods. Various 'toys' show partner a slam suggestion often at or below 4M.

Regards,
Robert

[Kalvan14]

Robert, on Nov 19 2005, 09:48 AM, said:

Hello Kalvan14

Brofeld posted the standard meaning for 1NT-5NT.  Invites 7NT and forces 6NT.

A pickup partner might have a problem with 1NT-2C-2S-4NT as RKC.

The conditions of contest for the problem stated 'something' about the stronger team was our team.  If it was not stated, the biding methods used strongly suggested that this was a regular partnership.

In my methods, it is impossible for 4NT to be RKC.  With a balanced hand,
1NT-3H*(CONFIT) shows a combined 31+HCPS and asks for his control total, later for suits, and 'still later' for the number of the top three trump honors.

With an unbalanced hand, transfers or 'shape showing' bids would be used to bid any slam range hand.

I very rarely use RKC in my methods.  Various 'toys' show partner a slam suggestion often at or below 4M.

Regards,
Robert

if it is a regular partnership, they must hav a method for further investigation of the hand distribution.
This was my 1st suggestion, and this should also clear away the possible issue of 4N being RKC.
After which, I agree that 4 N is a reasonable invitation to slam. My feeling is still that just stopping in 3N is a bit shy.

In a less seasoned partnership, I think you need something better than 4N to invite (provided that 4N cannot be RKC: I've no problems with your method, Robert. IMO, I've seen plenty players (including good players in a good partnership) playing 1N-2C-2S-4N as RKC agreeing spade)

[han]

I would also bid 3NT, and worry not too much about what happens in the other room. The hand is not even worth a slam invite in my opinion.

From our perspective is not odds on, so if the other room is going to bid slam: great!

[Robert]

Hello kalvan14

I was fairly sure that you would not be among the 3NT bidders.

Some like it, and some do not. I am way pass 'mad science.'

Methods vary by partnership style and choice. Whatever works for you.

I have seen many good pairs sometimes bid very badly. The fact that they used certain meanings for bid in any given auction does not affect the result.

My Bridge World subscription goes back to the late 70's. National and world champion pairs sometimes have comptelely different ideas about an auction.

One very good pair made a 15HCP reverse opposite a 14HCP responder in one Bridge World Challenge the Champs bidding contest. They got to a hopeless 6NT with a misfit 29HCP total after responder invited slam and later accepted his own invitation.

They were either world class or maybe just under world class, I would have to check on the exact details. They produced a really bad auction before a world wide audience, however, I still consider them a 'good' pair.

Thanks for the vote of confidence in my slam bidding tools not being 'inferior' to 1NT-4NT.

I bid the hands much better than the 1NT-4NT auction does IMHO.

If any top pair does use methods other than 1NT-4NT to invite slams, they also probably think that their methods are better.

Just out of my own curiousity, what standards do you use to describe a pair as being a 'good' pair?

Best regards,
Robert

[beatrix45]

4NT

Balanced hands, no long suits, a preponderance of the high cards. These are the conditions in which point count bidding is at its best. USE IT NOW.

P.S. I am curious why you bid 2♣ in the first place. With 4-3-3-3 and a jack empty suit, a diamond contract seems dubious. Plus, you have assisted the opponents in the defense AND misled partner about your hand. He is likely to place too much value on KJx in hearts, thinking the jack solidifies four tricks.