[sceptic]

Hi all,

I watched this bidding and I a curious is this NMF

p - p - p - 1 club
p - 1 heart -p 2NT
p - 2 diamonds (this was alerted as NMF)

I thought it was a transfer not NMF, in fact I thought NMF was ONLY after 1NT or is this a partnership agreement or something

[FrancesHinden]

Is that a 3D bid, or a 1NT rebid?

There are all sorts of fancy systems around that can be played.
For example, with one partner you would see

1C - 1H
1NT - 2D

2D alerted as a transfer to hearts

With a different partner you would see

1C - 1H
2NT - 3D

3D alerted as 'checkback' (asking for 3-card heart support or 4 spades)

There are all sorts of other schemes possible.

[blackshoe]

Quote

I thought it was a transfer not NMF, in fact I thought NMF was ONLY after 1NT or is this a partnership agreement or something

Absent an alert, 2 ♦ in 1 ♣ - 1 ♥ - 1NT - 2 ♦, or 3 ♦ in 1 ♣ - 1 ♥ - 2NT - 3 ♦ is natural. If it's conventional (NMF, checkback, transfer, or anything else) that is always a matter of partnership agreement.

If the auction really was 1 ♣ - 1 ♥ - 2NT - 2 ♦:, then 2 ♦ is insufficient, and what the bidder meant by it depends on what he thought he was doing.

If the bid is conventional and opener (or, in online bridge, the respoinder) failed to alert, that's another story - but it still doesn't mean that the bid has to be any particular convention.

The convention called New Minor Forcing is usually described as applying after a 1NT rebid. IMO it is less useful, and probably dangerous, after a 2NT rebid. Doesn't mean nobody plays it that way, of course.

[bid_em_up]

blackshoe, on Aug 8 2006, 09:21 AM, said:

IMO it is less useful, and probably dangerous, after a 2NT rebid. Doesn't mean nobody plays it that way, of course.

In its truest form, NMF only applies over a 1N rebid by opener. Many partnerships will extend this to a 2N bid as well and call it NMF, when technically, it is a form of checkback stayman.

Many partnerships will use the other minor after a 2N rebid as an artificial forcing bid that simulates a NMF auction. Regardless of the name given to it, applied properly, either NMF or checkback stayman work fine after a 2N rebid.

Personally, I prefer checkback stayman (3♣ always stayman) here, as it allows opener to show his entire hand pattern allowing responder to better judge subsequent actions.

[mike777]

I play 2 different things over 2nt rebids.
1) simply version is 3c is checkback with slam interest somewhere, 3d is checkback with only game interest.
2) A fancy complicated Baron where 3c and 3d can become quite complicated.

[mikeh]

many NA players play nmf over 2N rebids, altho other methods appear to be superior. I suspect that the popularity of nmf is that it is better than nothing and requires virtually no memory work if the users also play it over 1N.

Unfortunately, in my view, they are, in both cases, trading ease of memory for inferior methods.

My preferences are so called 2 way nmf over 1N and transfers over 2N.

[Elianna]

"NMF" (or "New Minor Forcing") is not an adequate alert, anyway. Even something as pithy as as "F, asking for more desc" is better.