[sceptic]

Quite a few times recently I have been in a quandry

bidding goes

pass 1 minor pass 1 major or

pass 1 club pass 1 heart

now it is my bid

I am interested in the use of x against sandwich NT i.e sort of with these type of hands

What I need help with (Ioften I have 4/4 in unbids suits and various strengths and I am never sure whether sandwich NT is better than a double)

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

one common treatment is,
that X shows a more constructive
hand, i.e. more HCP, less shape
in comparison to 1NT.

Personnaly I would always dbl,
if the roof should come down, you
have at least a chance to play 1S
instead of 2S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Winstonm]

A method I like for passed hand intervention is this:

X=4/4 unbids and usually a near opener (may be 5/4 if too dangerous to cue)
1N=5/5 unbids
Lower Cue=45 with length in lower ranking suit (Sanity applies for strength)
Higher Cue=54 with length in higher ranking suit (Again sanity applies)
2N=Classic 5/5 or 56 with consolidation in the suits - strongly save oriented.

[kenrexford]

A lot of folks like the two-way cues, but my experience has seemed better with the "cues" both being natural. (1♣-P-1♥-2♣=natural; 1♣-P-1♥-2♥ being natural also.) This is also the standard treatment.

I also have preferred after use that style mentioned by Marlowe as "one common treatment." I tried another version for a while where 1NT was takeout with length in Responder's suit and X implied possible length in Opener's suit. With that approach, after 1♣-P-1♥, you would double with most hands, but 1NT would be best with 4♠/4♥/4♦/1♣, or similar pattern. This occasionally netted a good pass (hearts stopped) or even finding a decent 4-4/5-4 heart fit (always a stack, though). However, I found that the FYI to the opponents hurt more than the occasional gains.

[mike777]

sceptic, on Aug 20 2006, 10:17 AM, said:

Quite a few times recently I have been in a quandry

bidding goes

pass 1 minor  pass  1 major  or

pass 1 club  pass 1 heart

now it is my bid

I am interested in the use of x against sandwich NT i.e sort of with these type of hands

What I need help with (Ioften I  have 4/4 in unbids suits and various strengths and I am never sure whether sandwich NT is better than a double)

If an unpassed hand then
X=opening hand
Sandwich NT=less than opening hand.

If you are a passed hand with 44 shape you are just going to x or pass again if weak.

[jtfanclub]

sceptic, on Aug 20 2006, 10:17 AM, said:

pass 1 club pass 1 heart

I'm tempted to use:

X: 4+ Spades 4+ diamonds
1 Spade: 5+ spades.
1NT: 5+ Clubs 4+ spades
2C: 5+ clubs, denies spades.
2D: 5+ diamonds, denies spades.
2H: 5+ Spades 5+ Diamonds
2S: 6+ spades (weak)
2NT: 5+ Clubs 5+ Diamonds

It's tough to show a club suit otherwise, and opener might have 3 (or 2, depending on what they're using).

But, I'm only thinking about it.

[mikeh]

I used to be a sandwich 1N bidder, but I have been playing 1N as natural and strong (a good 15 to 18.. usually 16-18 if red) for several years and do not see myself going back to using 1N as takeout.

The reality is that everybody loves to bid, and most good players respond very lightly to their partner's 1m opening... which, in turn, is often a lot weaker than would have been the norm 30 years ago. Thus you may well be cold for game or a substantial partscore even after 1m P 1M to you.

My preference is:

1N strong (system on, is an easy method, altho a bit lazy, and you probably need to discuss what to do if either opp doubles)

X = ostensibly opening values, at least 4=4 in the unbid suits

Bid of RHO's suit: natural, goodish suit, need not have a great hand... but if weak hand then goodish 6+ suit

Bid of LHO's suit: takeout: more shapely and usually weaker than double

I confess that I am beginning to feel that the cue of LHO's suit should be natural as well, but so far have not played it that way.

[FrancesHinden]

While I agree with most of mikeh's comments, the original question was about what to do when you are a passed hand, and 1NT cannot be strong.

The simple approach to life, which is what I play, is that
- double shows 4-4 (possibly 4/5) in the unbid suits, close to a maximum pass
- 1NT is 5-5 and usually weaker
- 2NT is extreme distribution, at least 6-5

By an unpassed hand I keep life even simpler, and play 1NT and both potential 'cue bids' as natural. That's what comes of playing for many years against 4-card majorites.

It is possible to argue that, as a passed hand, you can't have a suitable hand for P 1C P 1S 2S. This is probably true, but I don't think it's worth changing ones system significantly to cater for being a passed hand when any other meaning you assign is very unlikely to come up anyway.

p.s. I also prefer a much simpler method after a strong 1NT call in 4th seat by an unpassed hand: all bids natural, 2-level weak 3-level strong.