[sceptic]

I bid 2 spades , I never opened as I was to weak for vuln and 3rd seat

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     Pass  Pass
 Pass  1♦    Pass  1♥
 2♠    Pass  Pass  Pass
 

[mr1303]

So what about the auction has changed to make it ok to pre-empt now?

If anything it's more dangerous to pre-empt in this situation.

Anyway didn't you make 2S?

[mink]

I agree with your bidding, but not with your reasoning: you are in third seat, not second, and the main reason why you should not open this hand is the 2-suiter in the majors - preempts should be made on 1-suited hands.

Karl

[dcvetkov]

Despite the adverse effects of vulnerability and 4 card major, I suspect quite a few players would make a weak 2 bid, which has a lot of appeal in third seat. LHO is marked with a good hand, and they are almost cold for game.

[helene_t]

What Marc said.

Weakness makes it safer to preempt as you know that opps have game so at least you don't go for -500 on a partscore board. Besides, even if you miss a hearts fit, it's unlikely to be 4 hearts oppposite a passed hand, when you're very weak.

In second seat, there is a case for playing diciplined preempts. You might pass this hand because you don't want to loose your heart fit. Once the auction shows that you don't have a hearts fit, you can preempt, although it would take a better suit when vulnerable.

In third seat, the case for diciplined preempts is much weaker and certainly does not trump the advantages of bidding 2♠ as soon as possible. Once you decided not to open 2♠, you also decided not to bid at all unless partner encourages you, or maybe in a balancing position.

[mink]

If you open 2♠ with the West hand, it is not unlikely that partner has 5 ♥ cards and no ♠ cards, and you never find your ♥ fit. Preempting later like the OP did still makes bidding more difficult for opps. I agree it is dangerous however. When I wrote my first response I failed to see that EW are vul.

Karl

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I can live with pass in 3rd seat, but 2S over
1H is a lot more dangerous than a direct 2S
bid, in other words I think the 2S was inconsistent
with passing the round before.

Of course, thats no reason to leave the table.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: If you open a weak2 with a side 4 card mayor
suit is a style question, but being in 3rd seat would
persuade a lot of player, who would not do it in 1st
or 2nd seat.

[pclayton]

This worked out well for you, but only because North didn't open 1N in 4th chair, and both NS were allergic to competing over 2♠.

3N looks normal on the NS cards.

Wayne, reread Justin's comments. It is much better to preempt initially then to back in and give the opponents an opportunity to smack you and exchange information.

[gwnn]

What Justin said.

I think you'd like the "putting on the pressure" chapter in the Robson-Segal book. For instance, this was a violation of the "immediacy" principle.

[goobers]

Wait, opps are cold for game, you didn't get doubled in 2S, and your pard left? Did he leave just based on principle?

[paulhar]

You might be reading too much into this. Partner may have left because he had a power failure or his computer otherwise crashed, because a family emergency called him away, because his boss came in the room and he had to get off Bridge Base, or becuase he (selfishly) didn't want to wait a hand as dummy and decided to join a table where he would be active. There are quite possibly many other reasons partner might have left.

Since you gave no surrounding information, we can't tell. I did have a partner who once said 'I presume your lead of the six was a misclick' (apparently this player always led the highest of partner's suit!) When I replied "No', the player left. I was relieved.

[Winstonm]

An initial pass does not improve a hand. Once you have made the good judgement not to preempt the first time, the hand doesn't get better simply because it is your turn to bid again.

The green pass card you put down the first time is not a green light to bid, it is a reminder of what card to use next time the bidding comes to you.

This is not to imply that a passer must always continue passing - if you hold a 1 spade overcall it is neither diminished or improved by your initial pass. But when a hand is too weak to bid, it stays weak throughout the entire hand unless partner's bidding improves it.

I wouldn't worry about partner's leaving - that is just part of playing online bridge and shouldn't be a concern. If you don't want this to happen, form a ring game with people you know who won't leave.

[kenberg]

I'm guessing that part of your thinking was: On the first round I have these four hearts, but on the second round the opponents have bid hearts so I needn't worry about our heart contract so I will bid 2S.

Me, I wouldn't bid them on either round but if you insisted I do it one time or the other I would choose the first round.

It's sort of a fluke getting to play 2S here, and sort of a miracle (given what you hold) that your partner has the hand that allows you to bring it in.

Probably your partner had to rush off to play his standing date with Zia. He meant to explain but he forgot.

[Apollo81]

Jlall, on Apr 25 2007, 12:20 PM, said:

You shouldn't be concerned with hearts opposite a passed hand when you have a 5 count. Your goal if you bid is entirely destructive not constructive. You may miss a 5-4 heart fit, but so what, it's not your hand to play anyways, the opps have at least 24 HCP. Also it is quite unlikely partner has specifically 0 spades and 5 hearts.

Passing is fine, but if you pass you have judged that it is too dangerous to preempt. Nothing about the evaluation has changed except that it is now more dangerous to preempt with much less upside now that they have exchanged information about their hands. Had I passed in third seat I would just bid 1S now (for lead directional purposes mainly, and also just in case we have a huge fit).

exactly.