[ArcLight]

Both Vulnerable, IMPS, RHO deals and opens 1 Club.
This is a "Level 2" problem, meaning Intermediates, not beginners.

What do you bid holding:

♠ A K x
♥ 10 x x
♦ A J T x x
♣ A x


The author (Anne Lund) says 1NT "by 5 lengths".
I am not so sure thats a good bid. Your Club stopper isn't good enough. If it was Axx it would be a lot better. Axx allows you to duck twice and exhaust one defender if the suit is 5-3.

How would you rate a 1♦ overcall instead?

I wonder if her objection to 1 ♦ is that we are too good for a 1♦ overcall?

The hand is balanced, with no 4 card major.

[SoTired]

1. You are not "too good" for 1D
2. ♣Ax is not as good as ♣Axx, but it is still a stopper
3. 1D is 8+ in my book. 1N is 15-18. Your hand is better described with 1N
4. If you overcall 1D, you will miss an easy to get to game if partner has 9-10 HCP
5. If partner is weak with 5♥ or 5♠, you will get to the major suit if you overcall 1N, but likely will not if you overcall 1D.
6. 1N is more descriptive than Dbl
7. 1N shuts out LHO from bidding 1M and opps easily finding their 4-4 major fit

1N sounds like a "mile" better than 1D

[FrancesHinden]

Well, personally I would rate

Double 10
1D 8
1NT 5

After all, I have shortage in the suit opened and length in the other three suits, isn't that what a double shows?

This is partly a matter of style, but to say 1NT is "obviously" the correct call seems crazy to me.

[ArcLight]

Frances, if the Club suit was Axx instead of Ax, would you raise your rating of 1NT?

[Fluffy]

I also think Double is best here, between 1NT and 1♦, I am not so sure, 1NT is most describing, also still lets you play in a mjor if you have a fit. And people lead ♣ less than any other suit who has been bid of course.

All 3 bids are ok, I don't have the expirience to tell you wich one works better.

Axx is better stopper than Ax, more because it leaves 1 less club for RHO to run than anything else

[gwnn]

I've never seen the auction 1♣-1♦-all pass. Of course this is also cause of my vast inexperience, but not only. 1♦ and then even passing if necessary (ie no sound from p) sounds like a reasonable plan. With 9-10 hcp he'll act if he thinks he's worth it. The only problem is when it goes something like 1♣-1♦-3♣(=weak)-p-p-?. Still I think pass is OK as with majors partner surely will double and the magic 3NT is just not going to happen all that often.

BTW my overcalling style is similar to that of SoTired (but not quite 8 HCP - with only a lead directional overcall I'll WJO even on 5 cards), but with a nice 12 count pard will surely act somehow: X, 3♦, 3M or even 3NT. The "good" balanced 9-10 count is just too narrow a range to target for (it's probably the only winning case for 1NT). I would think it's much narrower than the unbalanced 4-5 count where we belong to a diamond partscore or the yarboros where we belong to defense or the OK hands where partner doesn't really have a ♣ stop and we get a nice juicy -200 or worse (1NT undoubled).

[inquiry]

I disagree with 1NT on these cards. I would double.

I disagree with the general premise that (1C)-1D should be bid on 8 hcp. The reason is 1D has no preemptive value and actually makes your opponents bidding easier. So while I look for any excuse to bid (1C)-1S since it steals a few easy bids from them, (1C)-1D does nothing but help them figure out the lay of the cards, and simplifies some of their auctions. So my 1D overcalls are typically sound.

Now on (1H)-1S has ssome of the same weakness if light, I will overcall 1S over 1H on lighter hands than I would overcall 1D over 1C. The reason being we might out compete them for 2S over 2H or 3S over 3H for instance.

[Gerben42]

I agree with Ben here. If you have a weak hand and a ♦ suit worth mentioning, why not bid 2♦?

To the rest of the thread: Depends who the column was for. If for beginners I would probably advise them to bid 1NT also rather than go through all the alternative, as it fits the definition.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

As was already said, it is a matter of style,
keeping this in mind I think 1NT is best,
... by a fair margin (however you quantify
this statement), it shows the shape, the
stopper and the points.

Selling the hand as 3-suiter is not my cup of
coffee, and my 1 level overcalls,
including 1d over 1C, are light.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

Gerben42, on May 2 2007, 08:54 AM, said:

I agree with Ben here. If you have a weak hand and a ♦ suit worth mentioning, why not bid 2♦?

Because your shape is wrong?
I dont mind a weak jump shift with
just a 5 carder, but the shape sould
not be bal.
And another reason may be, that 2D
could be artificial, showing both mayors.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Before someone asks, what I want to achieve:
1D may help partner to find the right lead.

PSS: 1NT also kills the complete 1 Level, which is
also a nice thing.

[inquiry]

I think "seeing the hand as a three suiter" is not the issue in choosing double. I think it is more along the lines of if we belong in notrump, we belong in NT from partners side. 1NT overcall wrongsides teh contract not only for a club lead, but potentially for a heart lead as well.

If you partner has enough for game, you want the lead coming from opener up to his hand, not through his hand up to yoours. And if he has enough for game, he will bid over dbl with some kind of forward going bid rather than 1S or 1H or 1D. So you try to manuever the contract to 3NT from HIS SIDE of the table. If you end in a part-score, either side will probably do just fine.

[bid_em_up]

Gerben42, on May 2 2007, 08:54 AM, said:

Depends who the column was for. If for beginners I would probably advise them to bid 1NT also rather than go through all the alternative, as it fits the definition.

I have never heard of Anne Lund, but given that the OP states that "This is a "Level 2" problem, meaning Intermediates, not beginners.", I get the impression that this problem is posed as part of some sort of teaching class or book that teaches beginners (Level 1 problems) and then progresses.

For players of this level, I think the recommended bid should be 1N (as it is).

The 1N bid describes in one bid:

1) balanced hand
2) point count
3) stopper in openers suit

This particular hand also happens to be 3-3 in the majors so after partners likely transfer, either major will play well, which is another plus for the 1N bid. And it contains a likely source of tricks, which is another plus.

Players at this level are likely to have problems in the auction after overcalling 1D. They will have not described their HCP so they are prone to overbidding later in the auction. One way to help alleviate this is to allow them to get the HCP range off of their chest first via the 1N call.

So I can agree with the 1N recommendation, but only for players of the beginner to intermediate level.

As one progresses further, one will begin to realize that 1N is not necessarily the BEST call. 1N also has some serious flaws, such as:

1) Ax in openers suit. You will only be able to hold up once, if needed.
2) Ax is also a decent shortness for a suit contract (ruffing value).
3) the hcp contained in the hand are all "prime" values or quick tricks. These are better for suit play, not NT
4) there are zero tenaces in the hand (outside of your diamond suit)
5) usually with hands like this, if the final contract is to be some level of NT, it is best if partner declares it so that the opening bidder is leading away from his hand, and the lead is running up to any tenaces partner may have.

I think you would find that most higher level players will double with this hand, since it is more suit oriented for play, and it can withstand whatever partner bids. And if the hand is to be played in NT, it really needs to be right sided so that partner plays it, not you.

[Al_U_Card]

When you double with this hand, partner is bidding H and now you get to pass or guess.....1NT is so descriptive that you make pard's choices MUCH easier. I vote for taking the weight off from pard's shoulders....

[FrancesHinden]

ArcLight, on May 2 2007, 01:59 PM, said:

Frances, if the Club suit was Axx instead of Ax, would you raise your rating of 1NT?

If you took away a diamond and made it a club (so the hand is 3343) then 1NT stands out.

If you took away a major suit card and made it a club, then double is no longer attractive and it's close between 1NT and 1D.

[SoTired]

Change the ♠A to ♠Q and I double.

Change the ♠AK to ♠Qx and I overcall 1D. It is true that 1D does not have preemptive value, but is that the ONLY reason to bid? I have a nice 5-card suit and some strength and I want to include partner in this auction. Maybe we can win the partial, maybe we can still bid game, maybe we can push the opps to the 3-level where they go down.

I will overcall 1D with any 5-card suit and any 8+ hcp hand. If I have a 6♦ and < 10hcp, then I bid 2D.

You people mastermind too much.

[jdonn]

I would just bid 1♦, if partner can't respond to that I don't think I'm missing anything at all, and I have easy rebids over anything they bid. If it continues 1♠ p 2♠ or something I'll simply pass, partner couldn't raise diamonds or double 1♠ showing hearts so I really don't think I'm missing much. Meanwhile I'm thrilled I told partner which suit to lead. If clubs get raised I can double for takeout later which is perfect.

I really dislike 1NT, it is too likely to be wrongsided and this hand looks really likely to play better in a suit if partner can't bid notrump.

In principle double is accurate on this shape, but my diamonds are good while one of my majors is terrible, and I think I have too much of a guess on the most likely auction, which is partner just responding with 1M back to me.

[pclayton]

1♦. My rebids are a lot easier I think.

If pard bids 1M; I'm good enough to cue and then raise. If pard bids 1N (we probably didn't wrong side), I'll bid 3.

If LHO raises clubs, I have a routine double.

If LHO bids a major, and RHO rebids clubs, I can double.

If LHO bids a major and RHO bids 1N I have a difficult decision, and I might pass or x.

----

OTOH, if I double, I'm a little stuck over 1 major. Does pard have a soft 8 that can allows us to make 3N? What is my best rebid?

-----

1N is sort of descriptive, but it makes it just about impossible to get back to ♦'s, unless the opponents double or rebid clubs. I don't hate the call as much as some of the others, because we'll still get to out to a our 5-3 major fit. If we stay in 1N, I have a nice source of tricks.

1♦ - 10
1N - 8
Double - 6

[jdonn]

pclayton, on May 2 2007, 10:44 AM, said:

1♦. My rebids are a lot easier I think.

If pard bids 1M; I'm good enough to cue and then raise. If pard bids 1N (we probably didn't wrong side), I'll bid 3.

I play (1♣) 1♦ (p) 1♠ (p) 2♣ as natural, not a cuebid. Don't tell me you have never been 1255 there. With a raise, I raise, to 3 in this case.

[Edmunte1]

I subscribe to 1♦ bidders

[pclayton]

jdonn, on May 2 2007, 07:57 AM, said:

pclayton, on May 2 2007, 10:44 AM, said:

1♦. My rebids are a lot easier I think.

If pard bids 1M; I'm good enough to cue and then raise. If pard bids 1N (we probably didn't wrong side), I'll bid 3.

I play (1♣) 1♦ (p) 1♠ (p) 2♣ as natural, not a cuebid. Don't tell me you have never been 1255 there. With a raise, I raise, to 3 in this case.

This is a sensible treatment I think.