[FrancesHinden]

I appear to have opened a 15-17 NT on (an admittedly control-rich) 13-count. Is that entirely what you meant?

[Fluffy]

I am bidding 5♥. Too many controls, and ♠Kx will be wonderful playing in hearts.

[gnasher]

I bid slam, suggesting hearts along the way if that's possible.

[dake50]

Does 5H (other hands 5C,5D) accept slam?
Or further try - out at 5N if no like H (other D,C)? I want to ask H-help (this time) ->go; not->5N.

Partner quantitative 4N invite with at most 1xA +3xK! Maybe I should go anyway. Did pard have a poor controls GF, slam try and didn't use that? Stay home.
Does 4N Quan promise expectable controls (5-6)?

I like this problem for systemic meanings that should be addressed. Esp. controls promised.

[pclayton]

6♥. 2:1 (not quite but close) we'll have a 5-3 here. 7 controls opposite a pard with known soft cards who makes a slam try? I expect a 16-17 over there.

[jdonn]

5♥. Hoping he can raise to 6, or else I would raise 5♠ to 6, or else I will pass 5NT and pray. This hand is too good in a suit.

[pclayton]

Anyone have an opinion on the difference between 5♥ and 6♥?

[inquiry]

pclayton, on Mar 4 2008, 12:01 PM, said:

Anyone have an opinion on the difference between 5♥ and 6♥?

one is a slam and one is not?

I would trott out 5♥ and see what happens.

[whereagles]

as usual, agree with gonzalo

[kenrexford]

5♥. Commits us to 5NT or higher. Partner can last train 5♠ if he has heart support but questions.

BTW -- good point for modified Puppet. This auction would show precisely 5233 using that approach. Otherwise, if Responder had 5♠/3♥, he could explore both majors below 3NT. The simplest version would be 3♣, Opener bidding 3♥ to deny a five-card major, and Responder bidding 3♠ if necessary. In the actual auction, Opener would bid 3NT, showing five hearts, and Responder could bid accordingly.

[kfay]

pclayton, on Mar 4 2008, 12:01 PM, said:

Anyone have an opinion on the difference between 5♥ and 6♥?

This is intersting because assuming 4NT shows 5332 5♥ should be showing 5 pieces. Normally I'd play 5♥ shows 4 and 6♥ shows 5 but this seems pointless here.

To me 5♥ is forcing. So what's the difference? I don't know but maybe 5 should be asking for a ♥ control in search of 6♠ but that's stupid.

[bid_em_up]

Wow.

[Apollo81]

I'm not sure whether to bid 5♥ or 6♥, or what the difference is, but I'm not passing.

[jdonn]

pclayton, on Mar 4 2008, 12:01 PM, said:

Anyone have an opinion on the difference between 5♥ and 6♥?

This is an area I've given lots of thought before. 6♥ should simply be a better suit where partner can pass on any holding Hx or better, such as KQJxx. 5♥ is forcing but you can pass 5NT if that's all partner can do, or bid 6NT if your hand is better. So 5♥ could still be a good suit if the hand isn't good enough for slam sans fit.

I definitely don't like 6♥ on this hand based on my own understandings, as partner would pass with as bad as Jx. Or to put it another way, if partner can't raise 5♥ then you really don't belong in hearts, and you can still bid slam anyway if you want to.

[655321]

Pass.

Agree that 5♥ (after partner shows 5332) should be a 5 card suit, no longer just 4.

If we didn't have a 5 card suit, passing would be very clear, despite all the controls.
On the actual hand, we have chances to make 5 spade tricks, and also chances to make 5 heart tricks, which makes slam more likely.

However, we still have 2 balanced hands with perhaps 31-32 HCP. Even when we run one of our major suits, more tricks will be needed. I prefer to stay out of borderline slams, so I pass. Second choice 5♥.

[gnasher]

jdonn, on Mar 4 2008, 07:40 PM, said:

6♥ should simply be a better suit where partner can pass on any holding Hx or better, such as KQJxx.

That seems sensible.

After bidding 5H, we might still reach 6S, which would be better opposite something like AQJxx Kx Kxx Kxx.

[Cascade]

pclayton, on Mar 5 2008, 06:01 AM, said:

Anyone have an opinion on the difference between 5♥ and 6♥?

We play over any quantitative NT :

Bids at the five-level show doubt as to level and identify the number of controls by steps so we do not get to six off two aces etc. (Exception on this auction 5♠ would be to play obviously. Just pick a minimum - you might choose 3 or 4 over a strong NT. We actually choose two and use the same steps for every auction. If it was a straight quantitative auction with no choice of strains we play as follows:

...... 4NT

5♣ Not sure with two or seven controls

5♦ Not sure with three or eight controls

5♥ Not sure with four (or nine controls)

5♠ Not sure with five controls (forget about ten)

5NT Not sure with six controls


Bids at the six-level would offer a choice of contracts.

[mikeh]

If the difference between 5♥ and 6♥ is truly a suit quality one, then 5♥ (forcing one round) is both perfect and, I think, obvious.

Our hand is way too good to pass 4N. Only walruses count this abundance of controls as 15.

But I suspect that if we were merely given the auction to 5♥ and asked what 5♥ meant, we'd get quite a few votes for 'a hand that accepts but only has 2 Aces'.

Personally, I can't imagine being worried about being off 2 Aces if I held 2 and had a partner make a quantitative slam move, so my preference would be for 5♥ to be natural, on a weakish suit: ie a perfect call. But I am not the least bit sure that my partner will be on the same wavelength.

However, 5♥ is perfect when we do think the same way and probably survivable when we do not, whereas 6♥ is a guess with less assurance of survival when we are not clicking as to meaning. So I bid 5♥.