[jtfanclub]

han, on Jun 25 2008, 02:56 AM, said:

The player who bid 4H is of the opinion that 3S in this auction can often be only 4 as a punt to 3NT. Therefore he wasn't willing to raise to 4S. Thoughts?

Um, that I've done worse things in my life than play a Moysian where the 3 card hand had a one-loser side suit, a void, and a side ace as an entry?

That I've done them sober?

That if I had 4 spades I'd have raised 2♠ to 3, so partner shouldn't think I just pulled a 4th spade out of my ass?

That the actual hand makes me wonder what responder was smoking when he bid 5♣?

[kenrexford]

han, on Jun 25 2008, 06:27 AM, said:

kenrexford, on Jun 25 2008, 05:40 AM, said:

I think Responder has a 3♥ bid over 2♥, personally.

I don't know their agreements in this direction but I imagine that 2H does not suggest 6 hearts or denies 4 spades. If this is indeed the case then 3H by responder would of course be ridiculous.

True. But then why not 3♥ over what looks like an obvious 3♣ bid? The world is a lot easier when people can actually find and establish 8-card major fits in a game-forcing auction below game.

I mean, I understand that 2♥ might for some people not show a sixth heart (I dislike that, but OK). I also understand that for these people 3♣ might simply show clubs and five hearts. I also understand that in that situation Responde3r might opt to complete his own pattern by bidding 3♠, rather than bidding 3♥ to allow Opener to bid 3♠ with a three-card suit, because Opener might not bid a fragment here.

But, that's friggin' stupid. Any approach with five-card major openings where the partnership cannot assuredly discover a 6-2 major fit is ridiculous. I mean, in this situation, Opener bid his heart suit four times to show six hearts. That's brilliant. I think I'd like to be able to show the sixth heart in two bids, or at least in two and a half bids, thank you. rotflol

The part I love is that you also cannot find a 5-3 spade fit either, because rebidding spades could be a "punt" bid.

1♥(I have five hearts)-P-2♣(I have some clubs)-P-
2♥(I have five hearts)-P-2♠(I have four spades)-P-
3♥(I have five hearts)-P-3♠(I have four spades)-P-
4♥(I have six hearts)

Yeah, that's great stuff.

[han]

I am not making a case for the 3H bid, but it obviously showed 6. I didn't understand the 4H bid myself which was why I posted the hand.

[kenrexford]

han, on Jun 25 2008, 12:57 PM, said:

I am not making a case for the 3H bid, but it obviously showed 6. I didn't understand the 4H bid myself which was why I posted the hand.

All that I am saying is that the auction was absurd well before the 4♥ bid. 3♣ is much better than 3♥ and solves a world of hurt. 3♠ over 3♥ was a strange but at least plausible call, I suppose. 4♥ was, I agree, just plain bizarre.

However, taking the apparent thinking of the players in mind, I see why this problem developed. 3♥ was bid because 3♣ might be bid with 5+ hearts and 4+ clubs, and Opener wanted to show the sixth heart for damn sure. 3♠ was bid with probable intention to pattern out with a 4♥ call, which has some appeal. 4♥ was bid because 3♠ might be a waiting bid or some crazy thing like that, so 4♥ at least gets us to 4♥ or 4♠.

But this results in an answer to the "wtf" problem of a specific bid that the pair has no clue how to bid. If nothing makes sense, why question a particular aspect of a chain of insane moves?

The man ran down the middle of the street naked carrying two dead chickens and a bowling ball. He was yelling out obscenities about how Ryan Seacrest is the head of an alien invasion force. But, at the end of the road, he started strangely beating his head against a stop sign. Why did he beat his head against a stop sign? That's weird.

[han]

For once we are not disagreeing Ken. I think this was a complete wtf auction.

[kenrexford]

han, on Jun 25 2008, 01:37 PM, said:

For once we are not disagreeing Ken. I think this was a complete wtf auction.

The funniest part is trying to decipher the meaning of 5♣. In the context of the thinking process so far, one could imagine...

2♦ showed diamonds
2♠ implied 4♠/5+♦
3♠ was waiting
So...
5♣ completes the pattern of 4054. Obviously slammish. If it could be natural, it is. Plus, Opener might have buried a club suit to make sure that he promised six hearts (twice).

So, maybe Opener should bid 6♣, to play! LOL

[Apollo81]

han, on Jun 25 2008, 02:37 PM, said:

I think this was a complete wtf auction.

the best way to sum up this thread