[KamalK]

Hello

Scoring: IMP

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Bidding goes p-p-1♦-p-1NT-p-?

Quetions :

1. Was suggested that I should I have opened 2♣ strong. But we wd still end up in 3NT. Pls advise?

2. Having opened 1♦, whats my next bid? 2NT? 3NT?

Thanks

Kamal

[ASkolnick]

You have nowhere near enough points or tricks to open strong.

If the range of the NT over 1D is 6-10, I would respond 3N.

This is an aggressive action, but

1) At IMPS, you should bid vulnerable games that make about 42% of the time.
2) You are sitting with 6 tricks you know of in your hand.

It is true, this game may not make, but see #1.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 1D is fine
#2 2NT or 3NT are both fine
If you are in the business of upgrading / downgrading,
downgrading the hand makes sense, having AKQ in
one usit and a 4333 distribution.
If you downgrade, this would mean 2NT, partner will
pass 2NT.
#3 If you end up in 3NT I would not worry to much, it
happens, most of the time, 3NT will have some play.

If you have 25HCP between you bid game, unless you
have a strong indication that game is hopeless.
In the current auction, you could say, that you have high
risk, that you will only have 5 cards in a specific major,
and in this case, it is quite likely that they will attack the
major, but ...


With kind regards
Marlowe

[jdonn]

1♦ p 1NT p 2NT p p p, seems utterly normal.

Good hand to be han.

[MarkDean]

Usually, with a balanced hand, one needs 22+ HCP to open 2♣ - the south hand is not close.

This may not be standard advice, but I would have passed 1♦ with the north hand. It is true that it has six HCP, but it is all in queens and jacks, and it has bad shape. Responding 1NT is probably the normal action though.

South has a close decision in my opinion. I would bid 2NT, but I know many players would bid 3NT. I would guess that 2NT down and 3NT down would be common on these hands.

[neilkaz]

Very routine 1♦ opener then raise to 2NT here, followed by a pass. There's a case for passing 1♦ with this quacky junk, but most players would bid 1NT.

I would not jump to 3NT with opener's hand noting that PD also knows we are vul and will stretch to try 3NT anyhow.

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

South has a close decision in my opinion. I would bid 2NT, but I know many players would bid 3NT

I don't think it's close at all. Partner has shown at most 3 cds in both majors, so the danger of being off the first 5 tricks is larger than average. Plus the long clubs partner probably has are blocked, there may well be entry difficulties.

3nt should show a different hand type IMO, say strong hand with running diamonds. It's enough to raise to 2nt with 18-19, partner should go on with anything where you want to be there, he can see the vulnerability also.

Passing 1♦ I could go along with, but not 3nt by South.

[TylerE]

Agree RE: 3NT.

A 3N bid looks something like:

Ax Kxx xx AKQJxx imo.

Quote

1. Was suggested that I should I have opened 2♣ strong. But we wd still end up in 3NT. Pls advise?

Whoever said that...I'd go beyond just ignoring and actively suggest you solicit their advice, and then file it under 'never ever ever do this.'

[Trumpace]

1. People who suggest opening this 2♣ need to take some lessons, IMO.

2. 2NT rebid shows 18-19, so bid it. Let partner bid 3NT with a 7+ point hand.

If you are worried about losing game frequently enough opposite a 6-7 point hand, then fine, go ahead and bid 3NT. But, that does not seem too likely to me (you have 6 tricks and need help for 3 tricks from partner with a min 6-7 point hand).

I don't think it is close choice between 2NT and 3NT at all. 2NT seems clear.

If you had a 5 card suit with AKQ, then 3NT is a good bid, IMO.

btw, do you remember the spots in this hand?

[MarkDean]

Sorry for the thread hijack, but I have a question for those who say 3NT shows a different hand type.

Would you really just bid 2NT with a decent balanced 19, say:
KJx AJTx KQJx Ax?

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

Would you really just bid 2NT with a decent balanced 19, say:
KJx AJTx KQJx Ax?

I do, and expect partner to bid on accordingly. If you have a hand where you think 1d-1nt-2nt-p is a disastrous position on average, I suppose my position is that maybe you should have upgraded it and opened 2nt.

[bid_em_up]

MarkDean, on Mar 17 2009, 01:55 PM, said:

Sorry for the thread hijack, but I have a question for those who say 3NT shows a different hand type.

Would you really just bid 2NT with a decent balanced 19, say:
KJx AJTx KQJx Ax?

I'll let you answer your own question.

If you open 1♦ holding KJx AJ10x KQJx Ax, and partner responds 1♠, what would you rebid?

[Cascade]

jdonn, on Mar 18 2009, 05:29 AM, said:

1♦ p 1NT p 2NT p p p, seems utterly normal.

I will raise to 3NT with many six point hands ...

... but not this one.

Q Q J J means downgrade.

[MarkDean]

bid_em_up, on Mar 17 2009, 12:38 PM, said:

MarkDean, on Mar 17 2009, 01:55 PM, said:

Sorry for the thread hijack, but I have a question for those who say 3NT shows a different hand type.

Would you really just bid 2NT with a decent balanced 19, say:
KJx AJTx KQJx Ax?

I'll let you answer your own question.

If you open 1♦ holding KJx AJ10x KQJx Ax, and partner responds 1♠, what would you rebid?

I fail to see how that is the same question.

In one case, we know partner has 6-10 balanced, and that 3Nt is the best contract a very high percentage of the time. It seems to me that many are saying that 1NT shows 6-10, and partner will accept on 7-10. That just does not make sense to me.

In the other case, we know that partner has 4+ spades, any strength, and we are uncertain to both strain and level. Leaving room to sort those things out seems like a good idea to me.

(sorry, my partial threadjack seems to have become a complete one...)

[jdonn]

1♦ P 1NT doesn't show 6-10 balanced. It can be unbalanced with long clubs. It can even have a singleton in a major.

[MarkDean]

OK, true, it does not always show a balanced hand. If people were arguing that we would then find out about unstopped majors after 2NT, I could get on board. But it seems people are suggesting partner will either pass or bid 3NT.

In my experience, I have not seen many people bid 2NT with a balanced 19 on this auction, so I am rather surprised to see so many people saying that is standard bridge.

[TimG]

MarkDean, on Mar 17 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

In the other case, we know that partner has 4+ spades, any strength, and we are uncertain to both strain and level. Leaving room to sort those things out seems like a good idea to me.

Do you mean that 1D-1S-2N is forcing?

[MarkDean]

TimG, on Mar 17 2009, 01:55 PM, said:

MarkDean, on Mar 17 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

In the other case, we know that partner has 4+ spades, any strength, and we are uncertain to both strain and level.  Leaving room to sort those things out seems like a good idea to me.

Do you mean that 1D-1S-2N is forcing?

No, but, at least in my partnerships, 1NT/1♦ shows more than 1♠/1♦.

[jdonn]

MarkDean, on Mar 17 2009, 04:54 PM, said:

OK, true, it does not always show a balanced hand.  If people were arguing that we would then find out about unstopped majors after 2NT, I could get on board.  But it seems people are suggesting partner will either pass or bid 3NT. 

In my experience, I have not seen many people bid 2NT with a balanced 19 on this auction, so I am rather surprised to see so many people saying that is standard bridge.

Optimally, you could play over the 2NT rebid 3♣ was to play and 3 of a major shows shortness with long clubs and is forcing, or something like that.

I agree with you that most people in real life bid 3NT. But most people aren't very good at bridge (in fairness this sways both ways, in that most defenders aren't very good either so the bidders who aren't very good may still be doing the right thing in practice.)

[hanp]

If Josh meant that I would downgrade the south hand then he is wrong. If he meant that I would pass the north hand then he is right, calling this 6 HCP is very stubborn point counting. And red against white without a four card major I see no reason to joke around. What are the people that respond 1NT hoping for?