[vuroth]

1. (1♠) 2♠ (4♠) X

What does the double mean?

2. 1♦ X P 2♦

What does 2♦ mean?

3. 1♠ P 2♠ P
P 2NT

What does 2NT mean?

4. (same as 3?)
1NT P 2♥ P
2♠ P P 2NT

What does 2NT mean?

5.

Scoring: MP

P P P ?

---

6. Standard carding/leads. Opponents in 5♣. Partner lead the A♥, and dummy comes down:

Scoring: MP

P P P ?

---

Is my discard suit preference for ♠v♦? (I can never really find a good "standard carding" reference...)

[hanp]

1. I would assume values/penalty oriented.

2. Forcing, how forcing depends on agreement. Most here play forcing up to suit agreement, so 2H by doubler is forcing, 2H-2S is forcing, but 2H - 3H is non-forcing.

3. two places to play.

4. two places to play.

5. 1D?

6. yes.

[jdaming]

1) I would take the double as penalty. You have shown your hand and partner has decided to whack em. 4NT would be for your minor and p already knows about your ♥ you have shown your hand.

2) Cuebid forcing. Basically p is showing values opposite your double. He wants to keep game in the picture. This is his forcing bid that lets you know he has a nice hand.

3) I would assume p has a flat hand with foreword going values and a crappy ♠ suit.

4) Invite. If you have 3 spades and an acceptance bid the ♠ game otherwise the NT game.

5) I would open it but we really stretch to open 3rd so I assume we have balance here. I am quite against the standard here though as the "Rule of 15" tells you not to open it.

6) When in doubt here ask yourself what info partner wants most and give him that (or nothing) in this case I would think suit preference makes the most sense especially if giving ♠ pref

[hanp]

Please ignore the rule of 15 when you have a normal opening hand.

[jdaming]

I don't disagree that opening this is correct, but I think it is less "clearcut" than you make it seem. Qx is not great points for our opener. We are likely to have to be competeing over one of their major fits possibly to the 3 level so I think it is best to do so and I dislike the rule of 15 as much as any I was more trying to introduce one outside method of evaluation that will serve him well in many (not this one) situations.

[jillybean]

jdaming, on Mar 24 2009, 11:13 AM, said:

5) I would open it but we really stretch to open 3rd so I assume we have balance here.  I am quite against the standard here though as the "Rule of 15" tells you not to open it.

Is it really standard to use the 'ruleof15' when deciding to open a hand?
Some tell me I should be using all sorts of rules but so far I have avoided it, prefering to develop my own hand evaluation skills.

[quiddity]

1. Values. These should be useful on offense or defense (aces), so partner can either pass or bid depending on his hand.

2. "Please describe your hand further." At least invitational to game; maybe a hand which isn't sure of the best strain (4-4 in the majors), or maybe a good balanced hand without a diamond stopper. Or perhaps a strong single-suited hand which wants to establish a forcing auction.

3. Takeout/balancing, guarantees two possible places to play.

4. same.

5. The points seem to be evenly distributed and the opponents can probably out-compete you in a major suit. There's a "rule of 15": when you have a marginal opening bid decision in 4th seat, add your HCP to the number of spades in your hand. If the result is less than 15, pass.

6. I don't know about this one. Your play is only suit preference if it will be obvious to partner that attitude doesn't apply. I guess there's a possibility here that you want partner to continue hearts and force dummy to ruff, but it depends on the auction and on your hand.

[jdaming]

I strongly agree that developing hand eval is far more important than any (or any #) of rules. This is however I think a decent "guideline" for a beginner/intermediate to start at.

[mtvesuvius]

1. Cooperative Penalty
2. Cuebid, Forcing to Game for me...
3. 2 Places to Play (Sometimes called "Super-Unusual")
4. 2 Places to Play (Sometimes called "Super-Unusual")
5. 1♦, rule of 15 does not apply here... Besides, there are no rules in bridge.
6. Yes. I believe Kantar has discussed this in his books. Is there any other good use for your signal?

[helene_t]

The rule of 15 seems very conservative to me. An average hand has 10 points and 3.25 spades, so considering that partner's 2nd seat pass probably has a slightly higher average HCPs+spades than opps' 1st/3rd seat passes. So I would expect "rule of 13" to optimize the chance of opening when the par is positive and not when it is negative.

Then again, opps have the advantage that they know that they are in a aiming at a partscore because they both passed, while p doesn't know when we have a sub-minimum opening. So in practice something like "rule of 14" may be better.

[mikeh]

1. Penalty. Not interested in playing in one of your suits at the 5-level, and too much stuff to let them play undoubled. Since it is very unlikely, on the auction, that he has a pure trump stack, he implies some high cards in both minors (with high cards in only one, he'd be afraid it was yours, and hence not likely to take tricks). So you can pull, as the 2♠ bidder with an extreme hand.. but I would expect a pass 90% of the time, or more.

2. B/I players often have trouble responding to takeout doubles, but there is a very simple 'ladder' of responses, especially if the 1-level is available, as it (mostly) is in this scenario. A 1-level advance in a major shows 0-a poor 8 count.
A jump to 2 major is non-forcing and shows a decent 8 - 10 hcp (can be fewer with a long suit). A jump to the 3-level is typically played as a very long suit, with a weak hand (which may well make game opposite a useful double with Aces and shortness in opener's suit). A jump to game shows a good long suit, an expectation of making opposite a minimumm takeout double, but no slam interest.

Notrump bids are constructive, and range from 7+-10, for 1N (or 8-10), 11-12 for 2N and full opening for 3N.

Leaving aside club bids, all other 'good' hands have to be shown via the cuebid. The cue normally shows 11+ hcp. Advancer may have his own real suit, in which case he will have a gf hand, or he may have doubt about where to play, with invitational or better values. It is customary in NA to play that the cue bid establishes a forcing auction until the partnership has either reached game or had a suit bid and raised. Thus, if doubler bids 2♥, and advancer raises, this can be passed, but if advancer were to bid, say, 2♠, this is forcing one round.

3. Traditionally, this was used as minors, but these days is far more commonly played as 2 of the unbid suits... advancer has to be careful to bid the lower of two suits in which he is interested. Thus, with, say, 3=2=5=3 shape, he advances with 3♣, not 3♦. If he bids 3♦, the 2N bidder may and should 'correct' to 3♥ when holding a club/heart 2-suiter.

4. See 3.

5. I'd open, but would appreciate that there is a significant chance that we will be outbid. I use the Rule of 15, but not when I hold a normal hand.. I use to (more or less) to determine when to open 10/11 counts.

6. One common approach, when dummy has a stiff, is to play high to suggest a switch to the higher side suit, low to suggest the lower and middle to suggest 'keep them coming'.. which is, surprisingly often, a necessary defence.

[FrancesHinden]

As you see from the replies, they may be basic questions but you don't get uniform answers. My answers are:

1. Penalties. Partner is not expected to remove unless he is (at least) 6-6 in his suits.

2. I have at least invitational values, please do something to describe your hand further. Quite how far the auction is forced is a matter of agreement; the 'textbook standard' is that it is forcing until you have bid and raised a suit. So

1D x P 2D
P 2H P 2S

is forcing, but
1D x P 2D
P 2H P 3H is not

3. Two places to play, these can be any two suits. Usually 5-5, too weak to act on the first round. Less distributional hands make a protectice double.

4. This is not the same as (3), because it depends what you play
1NT P 2H 2S
as.

and

1NT P 2H 2NT
as.

I play the first as Michaels (5-5 in hearts and a minor), and the second as both minors.

That means 1NT P 2H P; 2S P P 2NT is any two suits, but weaker than on the first round.

However, if you don't have a way of showing one of the two-suiters the first time, it's that hand, any strength.

5. I have a sneaky feeling it's technically correct to pass, but I would never do so at matchpoints. You paid your table money to play bridge, not pass boards out...

6. This is a very complicated subject. In summary my answer is "no" but I can't face writing an essay on this now... just to make the point that there isn't an easy answer to this.

[vuroth]

Thanks, folks. Some background for the curious.

1. My partner and I are now on the same page. More importantly, we're apparently on the CORRECT same page.

2. I held a 3433 14 count. I almost bid 4♥, but decided that 2♦ might be safer. Partner bid 2♥, and I was happy to raise to game.

I guess what had me uncertain is that, even if partner is, say, 4315, 4H might still be best (my diamonds were KJ9)

3 and 4 did not come up at the table. Partner did hold a 2425 hand over 4, and we were discussing that we should probably be IN the auction, but weren't sure of the best way to do so.

5. I got suckered. I almost always bid rule of 20 hands in 4th position, and this is a 21. Being an ACBL slowball game, I foolishly decided that pass would be the standard action. Of course, dealer's pass at our table was anti-field and winning, so it wasn't a good board. Maybe I was just lazy.

6. Declarer had AKQ of both spades and diamonds, so my signal was totally irrelevant on that hand. Partner and I are talking it over, in case it comes up again. I just wanted some validation that what I had in my head was sane.

Thanks.

V

[hanp]

Warren, don't worry about what the standard action is. Just play good bridge and you will win your share.

[JLOL]

I wouldnt open the 4th seat hand.

[Lobowolf]

mtvesuvius, on Mar 24 2009, 01:27 PM, said:

6. Yes. I believe Kantar has discussed this in his books. Is there any other good use for your signal?

Yes, but suit preference is the most common.

[hanp]

You are such a junior.

Wait, you pass?

[barmar]

In #4, the 2NT bidder shouldn't have good ♥. If he did, he could have doubled the transfer bid to show them.

[Codo]

1. penalty, I may think to run with a defenceless 7/7 hand but not with much less.

2. In SEF they have a great describtion for this bid: 8-10 witrh both majors, so that partner with 43 in the majors can take the right one, or any hand with 11+ HCPS and no clear other bid (like 3 NT f.e.)
More and more play it as a transfer and the majority outside France as "strong".

3. take out to the minors.

4. same as 3.

5. This is not clear cut. I have no majors and the queen of heart is a doubtful value. Game is close to impossible and there is a big chance that I will lose the battle for the partscore. All this is true, but it is still an opener.

6. Yes, you give suit preference. I believe that this is best in many situations, but of course no signal works always.

[hanp]

On the first hand we will double with pretty much any good hand without a fit, and it really doesn't promise that good a spade holding. I think partner should definitely pull with a 6-6.