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1C - 1S - ?
♠x ♥Kxxx ♦AQ ♣KQJxxx
It is quite close
worth to reverse? 1C - 1S - ?
#2
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Posted 2009-May-12, 09:37
i like my club suit
#3
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Posted 2009-May-12, 09:39
x KQxx Ax KQJxxx is definitely a yes. The given hand I believe should not reverse.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#4
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Posted 2009-May-12, 09:50
cyc0002002, on May 12 2009, 10:34 AM, said:
1C - 1S - ?
♠x ♥Kxxx ♦AQ ♣KQJxxx
It is quite close
♠x ♥Kxxx ♦AQ ♣KQJxxx
It is quite close
no, it's not quite close...this is not worth a reverse, at least not in NA
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#5
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Posted 2009-May-12, 09:55
mikeh, on May 12 2009, 10:50 AM, said:
cyc0002002, on May 12 2009, 10:34 AM, said:
1C - 1S - ?
♠x ♥Kxxx ♦AQ ♣KQJxxx
It is quite close
♠x ♥Kxxx ♦AQ ♣KQJxxx
It is quite close
no, it's not quite close...this is not worth a reverse, at least not in NA
... Does it make it closer if we are not playing reverse as gf?
#6
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Posted 2009-May-12, 09:56
Yes, but I am german.
It is also a question, what are the alternatives, and
what does a reverse promise (for me a reverse is
only a 1 round force).
If you dont reverse, you have to bid either 2C or 3C,
but if you bid 3C ... than basically you make a reverse,
for me 2C does not feel right, so I go with the reverse.
With kind regards
Marlowe
It is also a question, what are the alternatives, and
what does a reverse promise (for me a reverse is
only a 1 round force).
If you dont reverse, you have to bid either 2C or 3C,
but if you bid 3C ... than basically you make a reverse,
for me 2C does not feel right, so I go with the reverse.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#7
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Posted 2009-May-12, 10:03
cyc0002002, on May 12 2009, 04:55 PM, said:
mikeh, on May 12 2009, 10:50 AM, said:
cyc0002002, on May 12 2009, 10:34 AM, said:
1C - 1S - ?
♠x ♥Kxxx ♦AQ ♣KQJxxx
It is quite close
♠x ♥Kxxx ♦AQ ♣KQJxxx
It is quite close
no, it's not quite close...this is not worth a reverse, at least not in NA
... Does it make it closer if we are not playing reverse as gf? Huh, a simple reverse isn't GF in any standard system I know. Jump reverses on the other hand...
I don't really like the heart suit, and this isn't very close to a reverse, IMO.
Kind regards,
Harald
Harald
#8
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Posted 2009-May-12, 10:24
Nope. Move the Q♦ into ♥, and now it is a reverse.
Yay for the "Ignored Users" feature!
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Posted 2009-May-12, 11:03
mtvesuvius, on May 12 2009, 11:24 AM, said:
Nope. Move the Q♦ into ♥, and now it is a reverse.
Yes..that I'd consider to be a minimal reverse. But with the given hand, just 2♣
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Posted 2009-May-12, 11:44
mikeh, on May 12 2009, 03:50 PM, said:
no, it's not quite close...this is not worth a reverse, at least not in NA
Even in Britain, where strong twos are common and one can contemplate reversing a little light compared to NA methods, this still looks a little on the too light side to me. As others have suggested, move the ♦Q to the heart suit makes a lot of difference.
Nick
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
#11
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Posted 2009-May-12, 13:40
The thought of rebidding 2C with this hand makes me sick. If you want to bid 3C then you might as well bid 2H along the way.
New website: http://www.justinlall.com
#12
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Posted 2009-May-12, 14:50
It's certainly true that 3♣ is ridiculous, although I don't see that anyone has bid that unless I'm missing someone's post. A hand good enough for that is good enough for 2♥ anyway.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#13
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Posted 2009-May-12, 15:00
The given hand is just about right for an old Romex style non-forcing reverse. I haven't played Romex in many years, but the way I learned this, the reverse itself was non-forcing.
I don't think you could reverse on a suit of Kxxx, though.
In any event, we are not discussing Romex. In Standard, this is not a reverse. One is allowed to have something in reserve for one's bids. This is a nice, near maximum 2♣ rebid.
I don't think you could reverse on a suit of Kxxx, though.
In any event, we are not discussing Romex. In Standard, this is not a reverse. One is allowed to have something in reserve for one's bids. This is a nice, near maximum 2♣ rebid.
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Posted 2009-May-12, 15:04
JLOL, on May 12 2009, 11:40 AM, said:
The thought of rebidding 2C with this hand makes me sick. If you want to bid 3C then you might as well bid 2H along the way.
Justin, can you spell this out a bit better for me?
In another thread, you said that you thought 1D then 3D was a huge overbid with
Jx
Jx
AKQxxx
Axx
Now, you say you think if partner reponds in our stiff that bidding 2C makes you sick with
x
Kxxx
AQ
KQJxxx
Do you think the extra shape is what makes this hand that much better, or is there something about the honor structure as well? To me, with the likely seven tricks, the first hand is pretty good, so I was surprised to see the difference in sentiment.
#15
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Posted 2009-May-12, 15:32
I'd reverse on this hand. The sixth club is a huge card. For example, this hand may well be better than:
♠x ♥KQxx ♦AQx ♣KQJxx
which everyone (except maybe mikeh) considers a reverse.
I actually think Mark Dean's hand is a 3♦ rebid too. According to K+R evaluation both of these evaluate at 17.
♠x ♥KQxx ♦AQx ♣KQJxx
which everyone (except maybe mikeh) considers a reverse.
I actually think Mark Dean's hand is a 3♦ rebid too. According to K+R evaluation both of these evaluate at 17.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#16
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Posted 2009-May-12, 15:54
I would have bid 2H.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
#17
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Posted 2009-May-12, 15:57
I like wimpish reverses, so definitely a no-brainer 2♥ for me.
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Posted 2009-May-12, 15:58
MarkDean, on May 12 2009, 04:04 PM, said:
JLOL, on May 12 2009, 11:40 AM, said:
The thought of rebidding 2C with this hand makes me sick. If you want to bid 3C then you might as well bid 2H along the way.
Justin, can you spell this out a bit better for me?
uhh the second hand is better? Do you really compare 6322 with Jx Jx to the other hand? I don't get it.
How about this...if partner passes 2m which hand are you more scared to have? Surely it's the hand with four hearts where you could easily have a fit that you won't find.
Lastly, I hope I mentioned that I would always open 1N with the first hand. It's a good hand for NT, it's not a 1D 3D bid.
New website: http://www.justinlall.com
#19
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Posted 2009-May-12, 16:25
JLOL, on May 12 2009, 01:58 PM, said:
MarkDean, on May 12 2009, 04:04 PM, said:
JLOL, on May 12 2009, 11:40 AM, said:
The thought of rebidding 2C with this hand makes me sick. If you want to bid 3C then you might as well bid 2H along the way.
Justin, can you spell this out a bit better for me?
uhh the second hand is better? Do you really compare 6322 with Jx Jx to the other hand? I don't get it.
How about this...if partner passes 2m which hand are you more scared to have? Surely it's the hand with four hearts where you could easily have a fit that you won't find.
Lastly, I hope I mentioned that I would always open 1N with the first hand. It's a good hand for NT, it's not a 1D 3D bid.
I would be pretty scared with either hand, just afraid I missed a different game.
With the hand in the OP I would be more afraid with diamonds, but in clubs, I expect that responder can bid hearts NF some of the time we have game.
You did say you would open 1NT with the 2263 hand in the other thread.
#20
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Posted 2009-May-12, 16:57
The modern trend is for opener's jump rebid to suggest a hand that has a lot of playing strength with that suit as trump. That was not part of the definition that you would find in, for example, a Goren textbook - something like "16-18 HCP with a 6-card suit".
I suspect most American experts these days would rebid 2NT (instead of the 3H that Goren would probably suggest) with this 17-count:
Kx
AJxxxx
AQx
Kx
and rebid 3H (instead of the 2H that Goren would probably suggest) with this 13-count:
x
KQ109xxx
Axx
Ax
Some might describe both of these as "5-loser hands", but the second hand is obviously more suit-oriented - it rates to win more tricks with hearts as trump. Nowadays, at least in USA expert circles, one of the messages that the jump rebid tends to convey is "I have a suit-oriented hand".
By the way, I would have reversed with the hand in question.
Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
I suspect most American experts these days would rebid 2NT (instead of the 3H that Goren would probably suggest) with this 17-count:
Kx
AJxxxx
AQx
Kx
and rebid 3H (instead of the 2H that Goren would probably suggest) with this 13-count:
x
KQ109xxx
Axx
Ax
Some might describe both of these as "5-loser hands", but the second hand is obviously more suit-oriented - it rates to win more tricks with hearts as trump. Nowadays, at least in USA expert circles, one of the messages that the jump rebid tends to convey is "I have a suit-oriented hand".
By the way, I would have reversed with the hand in question.
Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com