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forcing or not?

#1 User is offline   pine cone 

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Posted 2009-May-24, 11:32

N----E----S-----W
1H--1S--2D*----2S
/----/----3C..

2D is forcing one round, and now the problem is: 3C be forcing or not?
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#2 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2009-May-24, 12:28

Imo it's forcing, otherwise the auction would start 1♥-1♠-Dbl
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#3 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2009-May-24, 12:35

I think a good general rule is that a new suit by an unpassed responder is forcing. So in the given auction, 3♣ (a new suit) would be forcing. If responder had rebid 3♦ or 3♥ (both previously named suits) that would not be forcing.
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#4 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2009-May-24, 14:59

Seems to me it should be non-forcing. Why would anyone want to force with xx, x, AQxxxx, KJxx in this sequence? This is a hand I do not want partner to possibly pass a reopening double, either.

I would reserve the reopening double for the stronger hands.
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#5 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-May-24, 15:02

Forcing is clearly standard. Whether that is optimal on whatever hand you hold at a given time is another story.
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#6 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-May-24, 15:10

We have a general rule in any competitive situation at the two or three level that a new suit (or repeat suit) at the lowest possible level is never forcing.

However when we have made a 2/1 after partner opened the bidding that is a small target so forcing would be reasonable on this auction. We can't have this auction since 2♦ for us is not forcing.
Wayne Burrows

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#7 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-May-24, 16:55

I prefer to play new suits in competition to be just competitive. With a better hand you have to double, cue bid or jump.

Maybe, though, this sequence is different because you didn't make a negative double of 1♠?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#8 User is offline   JLOL 

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Posted 2009-May-24, 18:02

for
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#9 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-May-24, 18:06

JLOL, on May 24 2009, 07:02 PM, said:

for

cing
Yay for the "Ignored Users" feature!
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#10 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2009-May-24, 19:37

Our side has 13+10HCP, or somewhere in that vicinity at the minimum. Trying to suddenly stop at 3C makes no sense. It is forcing.
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#11 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-May-24, 21:02

peachy, on May 25 2009, 01:37 PM, said:

Our side has 13+10HCP, or somewhere in that vicinity at the minimum. Trying to suddenly stop at 3C makes no sense. It is forcing.

13 is a heavy minimum for an opening bid.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
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Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#12 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-May-24, 21:52

Free, on May 25 2009, 01:28 AM, said:

Imo it's forcing, otherwise the auction would start 1♥-1♠-Dbl

Agree with Frederick.
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#13 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2009-May-24, 23:24

Forcing for me.
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#14 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-May-25, 02:52

Opener will normally be too scared to pass this, so it's probably forcing in practice.

Playing good-bad 2NT, it's certainly forcing :)
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#15 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2009-May-25, 02:57

Quote

Playing good-bad 2NT, it's certainly forcing smile.gif


That applies to opener only, I think. Besides, you would have Dbled otherwise, as Free pointed out.
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#16 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-May-25, 04:17

Sorry, wrong choice of words. I meant Lebensohl 2NT.
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#17 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-May-25, 04:32

whereagles, on May 25 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

Sorry, wrong choice of words. I meant Lebensohl 2NT.

Lol, I think it happens in almost every issue of IMP that some panel member calls this convention "Lebensohl" and the moderator says the correct name is G/B.
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#18 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2009-May-25, 07:53

whereagles, on May 25 2009, 05:17 AM, said:

Sorry, wrong choice of words. I meant Lebensohl 2NT.

Lebensohl?
This is new to me that Lebensohl could be applied in the OP auction.
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#19 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-May-25, 08:04

I meant Lebenshol in the sense Robson/Segal use it: 2NT as a tool to separate competitive hands from genuinely good ones.

Actually, they go as far as calling a good-bad 2NT "Lebensohl" as well.
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#20 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2009-May-26, 13:01

3♣ is definitely forcing for me.
Kind regards,
Harald
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