[hanp]

A partner of mine likes to play relays after a natural 15-17 1NT opening. It works as follows: after Stayman you can ask for shape with 2S (after a 2D or 2H response) or 3C (after a 2S response). Later you can ask for controls (0-4, 5, 6, etc) and then exact locations of highcards.

I would like to hear from others who have more experience with with relays after 1NT. How much of a disadvantage is it that we cannot show 6-card minors, 5332 with 5 spades and exact 4-2-5-2 and 4-2-2-5 shapes? Is it worth giving up the 2S bid for these relays? With what kind of hands would you use the relays?

[kenrexford]

One functional equivalent to this, in a sense, if a GF 2♦ call in two-way Stayman.

When I played that, I found some magic slams.

Wasn't worth it in the long run, IMO.

[jdonn]

Yes I have used the 2♦ relay, and was able to fit in 5 card majors and 5422 hands with a 5 card minor, but not 6 card minors. I didn't care for it in practice since in order to make it symmetric and easy to memorize, the shapes had to be shown in illogical order. So for example you might have to ask three times just to find out whether partner has 4 spades or not. Maybe it could have been set up differently, but I spent quite a lot of time on it so I don't think I missed the boat.

The next closest thing I have heard of is from Goldsmith and Shuster, where they play a lot of the next-highest suit bids that you suggest as some sort of relay but I don't think it would ask for full shape. They might have utilized this as a way to sign off in a minor after bidding stayman, and I think they also never invited so stayman then 2NT was a relay potentially.

[ulven]

jdonn, on Jun 11 2009, 02:59 PM, said:

Maybe it could have been set up differently, but I spent quite a lot of time on it so I don't think I missed the boat.

Josh, email me and I'll set you straight ;-)

[jdonn]

Why don't you set me straight first. I don't have it any more, and I don't doubt you could artificially assign each particular sequence to a particular shape, but I was interested in having it follow some pattern so that I could learn and remember it. I was also trying to make opener be dummy when possible, although that was a secondary concern.

[ulven]

jdonn, on Jun 11 2009, 03:29 PM, said:

I was interested in having it follow some pattern so that I could learn and remember it.

I have constructed a good one and was offering it to you [privately].

[Codo]

I know that Gromöller -Kirmse (a pair of the German Open team) used this quite a lot.
They swear it works wonder and they will find the miracolous slams and make better descissions on the game level.

Actually I prefered these relays as defender, because more often as not they ended in game while showing the complete distribution of declarer. This makes defending much easier. No need for length signals, everything is attitude and suit preference.

[gnasher]

Codo, on Jun 12 2009, 07:30 AM, said:

Actually I prefered these relays as defender, because more often as not they ended in game while showing the complete distribution of declarer. This makes defending much easier. No need for length signals, everything is attitude and suit preference.

Surely you'd only use these relays on slam hands? Sequences like 1NT-2♣;2x-2/3NT would have their normal meanings, so on game hands no information leakage would occur.

[Codo]

Well sometimes you need to find out whether you have a slam hand and still stop in game. Especially when you try to find the magic fits, you need to explore quite many hands which are ordinary games.
So when I played them, they used it very often and stopped in game.