[Cascade]

Dealer: East Vul: All Scoring: IMP

♠ Q6 ♥ T ♦ AKQJT953 ♣ 82

What if you are unfavourable?

If you open 1♦ at any vulnerability what is your subsequent plan?

[helene_t]

I open 3NT.

Without that convention I open 5♦.

[Fluffy]

Second position 3NT looks right, secondchoice 1♦, I don't see the urge to preempt at second position with this, but 3NT is constructive towards slam.

[rd6789]

3nt shows this type of hand - open anything else and you'll never convince partner you hold this

[skjaeran]

3NT in 1st and 2nd seat, 5 diamonds in 3rd seat except unfavourable, where 4♦ is adequat.

[ONEferBRID]

One reason that the Gambling 3NT is not opened with a solid 8 is that the chances of catching partner with a VOID has increased . ( Admittedly, I don't know what the void odds are between 7 vs 8 ) .

[gwnn]

What Heleenuh said.

[Cascade]

ONEferBRID, on Aug 16 2009, 01:12 AM, said:

One reason that the Gambling 3NT is not opened with a solid 8 is that the chances of catching partner with a VOID has increased . ( Admittedly, I don't know what the void odds are between 7 vs 8 ) .

With a seven card suit the chance of partner having a void is 7.06%

With an eight card suit the chance of partner having a void is 11.42%

But I suspect this is all irrelevant as partner will know she has a void and not leave 3NT in.

BTW I forgot when posting this that the world would play gambling 3NT. Is there really not something better you can do with your 3NT openings?

[peachy]

Cascade, on Aug 15 2009, 03:12 PM, said:

BTW I forgot when posting this that the world would play gambling 3NT. Is there really not something better you can do with your 3NT openings?

Like what?

I have one partner with whom the agreement is to open 3NT with a broken minor of about 8 cards, because we play Namyats and 4C and 4D are not available for natural bids. The fact of the matter is, neither one of us has opened 3NT while this agreement has been valid (about two years) and I play with him at least once or twice a week on BBO pretty regularly.

It is about time to go back to Gambling 3NT, that at least comes up every now and then and using 3NT for 25-27 or some such NT hand just does not make sense to me. Maybe I should have started a new thread... what is the best use of a 3NT opening in various systems.

[Cascade]

I thought that once Fred expressed an opinion something like 3NT was best played as something where either 3NT from your side was a very likely final contract or an almost impossible final contract.

Certainly the problem with 3NT gambling is that it can much too easily wrong side the 3NT. In fact the last time I saw a 3NT opening at the table my partner with no bid cards led low from her six card heart suit to the queen, Kx hit the dummy I won and we the first six heart tricks with 3NT cold from the other side. One hand doesn't prove anything but this is an avoidable problem with better methods.

[peachy]

Cascade, on Aug 15 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

I thought that once Fred expressed an opinion something like 3NT was best played as something where either 3NT from your side was a very likely final contract or an almost impossible final contract.

Certainly the problem with 3NT gambling is that it can much too easily wrong side the 3NT. In fact the last time I saw a 3NT opening at the table my partner with no bid cards led low from her six card heart suit to the queen, Kx hit the dummy I won and we the first six heart tricks with 3NT cold from the other side. One hand doesn't prove anything but this is an avoidable problem with better methods.

What is the "better method" you are talking about? This is not intended as a dog yapping at your ankles. I'd like to know but if you prefer not to tell, NP:)

[Cascade]

peachy, on Aug 16 2009, 04:41 PM, said:

Cascade, on Aug 15 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

I thought that once Fred expressed an opinion something like 3NT was best played as something where either 3NT from your side was a very likely final contract or an almost impossible final contract.

Certainly the problem with 3NT gambling is that it can much too easily wrong side the 3NT.  In fact the last time I saw a 3NT opening at the table my partner with no bid cards led low from her six card heart suit to the queen, Kx hit the dummy I won and we the first six heart tricks with 3NT cold from the other side.  One hand doesn't prove anything but this is an avoidable problem with better methods.

What is the "better method" you are talking about? This is not intended as a dog yapping at your ankles. I'd like to know but if you prefer not to tell, NP:)

We play 3NT as an ace-ask. But I wouldn't recommend that for everyone. What will work best for you will depend on the rest of your system.

There are players playing 3NT as a four-level minor suit pre-empt. This usually fits for them because they want to play 4♣ and 4♦ as Namyats.

There are others playing 3NT as 5=6 or 6=5 in the majors pre-emptive.

An old fashioned Acol 3NT with a strong minor and side stoppers is also an option.

There are probably many other ideas with some merit.

Very early in my bridge playing days a player who I still respect highly for his opinions said something like "I have never seen a good result from a gambling 3NT that you could not get some other way". While I am sure that is an exaggeration I don't think it is that far off the mark. And as I mentioned above there is a real danger with the Gambling 3NT that you will wrong side the contract.

[gwnn]

It is rather tricky though to describe that hand.

Jxx
x
AKQJxxx
Qx

I mean are we really going to jump to 3NT over the 1♥ response? The way I know it 3NT sort of promises a strong hand. The expert friend of yours Wayne I suspect is a bit biased. Of course no convention is such that gets "a good result that you could not get some other way".

I don't mean to say that I think 3NT is the best convention in the world but it certainly has merit.

[rhm]

peachy, on Aug 15 2009, 11:41 PM, said:

Cascade, on Aug 15 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

I thought that once Fred expressed an opinion something like 3NT was best played as something where either 3NT from your side was a very likely final contract or an almost impossible final contract.

Certainly the problem with 3NT gambling is that it can much too easily wrong side the 3NT.  In fact the last time I saw a 3NT opening at the table my partner with no bid cards led low from her six card heart suit to the queen, Kx hit the dummy I won and we the first six heart tricks with 3NT cold from the other side.  One hand doesn't prove anything but this is an avoidable problem with better methods.

What is the "better method" you are talking about? This is not intended as a dog yapping at your ankles. I'd like to know but if you prefer not to tell, NP:)

I can not speak what others "better methods" are, but Danny Kleinman has an article called something like 'Namyats has it backwards'.
He suggests using 3NT as a strong major suit preempt and keep 4C and 4D as natural minor suit preempts.

This is what I like to play.

I tend not to preempt with solid minors. I open and rebid them.

Rainer Herrmann

[goodwintr]

Using 3NT for a strong major-suit preempt is an idea of Kantar's, I believe. He played it as showing a solid major suit, not just a strong one. I played it for a while, but don't recall that it ever came up.

[NickRW]

I don't play gambling 3NT. For me 4♦ is adequate at these colours.

Nick

[nigel_k]

rhm, on Aug 16 2009, 03:18 AM, said:

I can not speak what others "better methods" are, but Danny Kleinman has an article called something like 'Namyats has it backwards'.
He suggests using 3NT as a strong major suit preempt and keep 4C and 4D as natural minor suit preempts.

I like this too. If you are a trick better than a standard four of a major preempt you get to preempt the auction without understating your strength. The gambling 3NT is less common and has never worked out well for me anyway.

Anyway on the actual hand, the choices are 1♦ or 5♦. 4♦ is feeble. You may go down in 5♦ when 3NT makes (and they would have let you play it) but I think the upside of the preemptive value outweighs that.

[Cascade]

8 tricks (and a little bit for the ♠ Q) are not enough for a vulnerable 5♦ for me.

We will get to 5♦ too often when no one can make anything.

[dicklont]

ONEferBRID, on Aug 15 2009, 03:12 PM, said:

One reason that the Gambling 3NT is not opened with a solid 8 is that the chances of catching partner with a VOID has increased . ( Admittedly, I don't know what the void odds are between 7 vs 8 ) .

How can that be a problem?
With a void partner is supposed to run.

[rhm]

goodwintr, on Aug 16 2009, 09:23 AM, said:

Using 3NT for a strong major-suit preempt is an idea of Kantar's, I believe. He played it as showing a solid major suit, not just a strong one. I played it for a while, but don't recall that it ever came up.

Using 3NT for a strong major preempt is not the same as Kantar's idea, because as you point out he required a solid suit. That is also why Kantar's idea is much less frequent.

Rainer Herrmann