[rbforster]

Playing a KO, partner opens 1♥ and you hold a nice GF hand with 6-5 blacks. Predictably, the auction requires 3♣ as 4th suit GF, leaving you in the unfortunate position of having an extra spade and almost certainly all the club stoppers. I showed the 6th spade, and heard 4D. Now what?

Scoring: IMP

1♥-1♠
2♦-3♣*
3♦-3♠
4♦-?

---

I could see this auction coming (through 3C 4th suit), but couldn't bring myself to start with 2♣ while concealing my good 6 card major. Anyone got a solution to this mess (GF blacks over 1H-1S-2DH) short of playing 2C GF relay?

[gnasher]

I don't really see what you're worried about. There's no reason to think you belong in clubs or notrumps. I'd bid 4♠ now, hoping we're not too high.

[rbforster]

gnasher, on Mar 19 2010, 03:19 AM, said:

I don't really see what you're worried about.

I wish there was a way to offer 3N vs 4S, while showing 6 spades. More generally, I could have an unlimited 1 suiter in spades too (rather than S+C) and bid very similarly without showing my extra values or clubs.

[Fluffy]

Rob F, on Mar 19 2010, 08:23 AM, said:

gnasher, on Mar 19 2010, 03:19 AM, said:

I don't really see what you're worried about.

I wish there was a way to offer 3N vs 4S, while showing 6 spades. More generally, I could have an unlimited 1 suiter in spades too (rather than S+C) and bid very similarly without showing my extra values or clubs.

strong jump swifts you mean?, they were ditched decades ago for a reason, but maybe you take them back to fashion

[jjbrr]

4♠. Not really sure NT should be an option here given we'll frequently have communication problems.

AKJ9xx is a fine suit to insist on as trumps.

[FrancesHinden]

Rob F, on Mar 19 2010, 08:23 AM, said:

gnasher, on Mar 19 2010, 03:19 AM, said:

I don't really see what you're worried about.

I wish there was a way to offer 3N vs 4S, while showing 6 spades. More generally, I could have an unlimited 1 suiter in spades too (rather than S+C) and bid very similarly without showing my extra values or clubs.

This is a different issue. It is a good idea to have a way of showing a slam-looking spade single-suiter that doesn't have to go through fourth suit. Either playing strong jump shifts, or playing 1H - 1S - 2D - 3S as forcing (which works very well played with European-style weak jump shifts).

[whereagles]

Honestly, I think 3NT over 3♦ is a pretty good bid. You're going no where on this huge misfit, despite all the hcp.

[awm]

I'd bid 4♠ on the auction and methods described.

My approach over 1♥-1♠ would help here. I play opener's rebids as:

1N = 2533 or 4+♦; forcing one round
2♣ = natural
2♦ = a good hand with 3+♠
2♥ = natural
2♠ = a minimum with 3-4♠

The use of 1N to show diamonds creates a lot of additional space, in particular allowing a 2♣ "fourth suit" bid at a convenient level. The only real disadvantage is the inability to play in 1NT when opener is balanced, but 2/1 players are used to being unable to play 1NT (supposedly 2♥ is usually just as good) and there are many big advantages to this approach (better bidding of GF hands when opener has ♥+♦, solving bridgeworld death hand, staying lower on spade fit hands because of the two raises, opener being able to pattern out more easily on ♥+♦ hands, not having to false-preference diamonds back to hearts with 4♦/2♥).

[aguahombre]

The subtitle says it all, IMHO. I am sure you have hated 1s/1H auctions before this -- and 1D/1C auctions also, when responder has a slammish distributional hand.

Mike Lawrence wrote up these two strong jump shifts in a recent ACBL Bulletin, and uses them as one of three hand types, only:
1)Slammish one-suiter (very slammish, not so-so)
2)Slammish two-suiter (likely with Opener's first suit)
3)Very slammish 5 of suit and notrump nuts.

[mikegill]

I also play the same thing as Adam essentially and I have been very happy with the results. The only difference is I play 2♦ shows any hand with 3-card support, and 2♠ shows a minimum with 4. Good hands with 3-card support can just bid 2♦ and then take another call on the next round. I have found that opener somewhat frequently holds a hand that might make game opposite even a minimum with 4-card support, but opposite 3-card support is in danger at the 3-level.

[whereagles]

Why so many gadgets over what is essentially a judgement issue?

[bid_em_up]

I finish my hand pattern (and show a real club suit) by bidding 4♣ (not 3♠). After that, I have shown my hand, and will respect whatever partner bids next. If partner bids 4♦ over this, I will raise to 5.

[nigel_k]

Not a pleasant problem but I wouldn't use it as a reason to hate all auctions that start 1♥-1♠.

I don't like bidding 4♠ much, and if 3♣ FSF is the only way I can show a game forcing single suiter in spades then I really hate it. Assuming partner is one of those people who always opens the major with 5-6 then I bid 5♦ otherwise I bid 4♥.

I definitely would not have bid 3NT last time, partner would do that over 3♠ on most hands where it is right.