[bucky]

ONEferBRID, on Aug 27 2010, 02:25 PM, said:

Again, FWIW, I think Leb2 should be made to look more like Leb1.... for memory purposes.

<snip>

But to help allieviate the problem in Leb2 of a direct 3NT showing NO Stayman and NO stop, I think you could sacrifice the direct 3C! for that:
( 2M ) - DBL - ( p ) - 3C! = no-stop and no Stayman but have game values.
That way partner can make an informed decision at a lower level about whether
to pass, invite or bid game.

The "Advancer 3NT" bid is more of an issue for our side with Leb2 because the Doubler is less likely to have a stop; whereas with Leb1, our 1NT bidder is more likely to have a stop .
So for Leb1 the direct 3NT retains the original meaning:
1NT - ( 2M ) - 3NT = no-stop and no Stayman but have game values

Sooo, what can we use the following auction for in Leb2 ?
Perhaps:
( 2M ) - DBL - ( p ) - 3NT! = no Stayman and no-stop but long, solid Clubs.

This special treatment of 3♣ / 3NT presents some serious problems. For starter, it actually appears asking for more memory burden (at least to me). More seriously, after 3♣ (but no stopper / no 4-card maj), partner can pass?! Not only is 3♣ here meant to be game-force, but it doesn't even promise a club suit (partner can have good diamonds and just looking for 3NT)... And in addition to the seemingly inefficient treatment of using 3NT for specifically solid clubs + no stopper, how do you bid with some clubs and in 8-11 range?

[ONEferBRID]

Bucky writes:

Quote

....... how do you bid with some clubs and in 8-11 range? [ w/no stop and no 4oM ]

It definitely is a problem with my proposal of (2S ) - DBL - ( p ) - 3C! [ may be artificial] to include this hand.
Then again it isn't the first time a natural Club bid has been sacrificed... albeit not often at the 3-level ( eg. as an artifcial SJS ).
Even Ron Anderson describes this sequence as showing: " useful values" ... but it does show "some" ... Clubs....not necessarily 6.

Perhaps my proposal is an "exercise in futility"... but enjoy "inventing".

[fromageGB]

Gurgistan's thread seems to have been hijacked somewhat.
Everyone thinks of using Lebensohl as a response to a takeout double of a weak 2, and indeed many (most?) people play that. But you can also play Lebensohl directly over the weak 2.

Imagine partner has opened a 12-14 1NT, and your RHO has made a 2M overcall. You play Lebensohl. Therefore you can do the same when RHO OPENS a 2M. Mentally take away an Ace value, then bid as if partner had opened 1NT ... except that X can be pure takout rather than balanced values.

So a direct bid of 3D is forcing, and a bid of 2NT (relaying to 3C) then bidding 3D is to play. This is Lebensohl over a weak 2 as I have played it. Similarly 2♠ over 2♥ is to play, 3♠ over 2♥ is a forcing powerhouse, 3♠ after 2NT is invitational.

Gurgistan may be alluding to this. If so, I don't think it is extra strain on the memory, as it is nothing new.