[matmat]

Was kibitzing earlier and this hand came up:

Scoring: XIMP

1♦ - (2♣) - X - (4♣)

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what is your call here? What's your reasoning?

[Phil]

4♠. Maybe a little short on HCP, but the hand has nice playing strength and I'm probably OK in diamonds if pard has 2542 os something.

Double has a superficial appeal, and seems to find a 5-3 heart fit, but what is pard supposed to with 4-4 in the majors?

[BudH]

matmat, on Aug 28 2010, 07:13 PM, said:

Was kibitzing earlier and this hand came up:

Scoring: XIMP

1♦ - (2♣) - X - (4♣)

---

what is your call here?  What's your reasoning?

One problem with 4♠ is that there is no guarantee of two 4-card majors after an auction begins 1♦-(2♣)-Double. You'd much rather play a 4♥ Moysian than a 4♠ Moysian.

This isn't easy to solve - even if you double (takeout), responder will bid 4♥ with one or two 4-card majors and you still have to guess. (If responder bids 4♥ NOT in tempo, you will have to decide if pass is a logical alternative to bidding 4♠ - and later ending in 5D if a 4-4 spade fit isn't available.)

[jdonn]

Matmat?!? There is only one logical alternative.

BudH, on Aug 28 2010, 08:02 PM, said:

One problem with 4♠ is that there is no guarantee of two 4-card majors after an auction begins 1♦-(2♣)-Double.  You'd much rather play a 4♥ Moysian than a 4♠ Moysian.

Since 4♠ doesn't bar partner from the auction if he lacks four of them, I'm not particularly worried about it!

[matmat]

jdonn, on Aug 28 2010, 08:11 PM, said:

Matmat?!? There is only one logical alternative.

Heh. I was overthinking this, obviously.

The, apparently bad, brain process was that we are really likely to get tapped with this hand and it would be better played in whatever suit p has 4 cards in, even if it happens to be the 43 as opposed to the 44 fit.

I don't have a great sense of how much in terms of values or defence a responsivish double here promises either :/

[JLOGIC]

I think jdonn was way too harsh, I would automatically double with 3451. The distinction between 3451 and 4351 is real because partner is often just 4-4 in the majors and you get to the wrong spot by Xing in the 1st case (note this is why its good to uniformly bid the lower with 4-4 in auctions like this, so 3451 can double), but it might not be immediately obvious.

Double could still work. Also don't agree with jdonn that partner will pull 4S with 3 spades very often, he will probably only do so when he has 4 diamonds. With 3532 we are in the wrong spot, 3433 we are in the wrong 4-3 etc. Still 4-4 is by far the most likely and its worth noting that if hes 4-5 and we double we also get to the wrong spot though it probably doesn't matter.