[Free]

Help me settle an argument.

Playing MatchPoints, you hold:

---

(note that opps are playing precision)

What's your call/bid?

EDIT: more info was requested:
- Their 2♣ opening is standard precision: 6+♣ or 5♣-4M.
- They don't have a clear opening for 3-suiters with short ♦. They can open 2♣ with (43)-1-5, and with 4-4-1-4 they opên either 1♥, 1♦ or 1NT depending on the hand.

[Hanoi5]

Pass is a very pessimistic view: you don't think your hand is worth entering the bid or are afraid of the outcomes of bidding. It's not likely that partner (who 'clearly' holds hearts) can compete, so pass will probably finish the bidding (unless it's their hand and they continue bidding, in which case it was a good idea to pass).

Double is the most flexible option, partner can pass and any of the options he chooses will rate to be the best as he shouldn't choose hearts (the only 'real' natural bid so far).

2♣ is probably the most dangerous option, 1♦ openings are normally used with hands that 'naturals' would open 1♣, and I don't think this hand is a 1♣-2♣ overcall. Of course partner can still bid over 2♣, but does he have to?

All in all some more information could be needed, do they open 2♣ with 5 or 6 cards? (if the former then 2♣ gets a better view). Can opener be hiding 4♠ in this sequence?

I'm a little aggresive so I'd double, Pass being my second option (I don't have a lot of experience playing against strong club systems).

[nige1]

 Free, on 2010-December-26, 14:15, said:

Help me settle an argument.
Playing MatchPoints, you hold:
(note that opps are playing precision)
What's your call/bid?

---

IMO _X=10, 2♣=7, _P=6.

[mgoetze]

Stolen bid double for your Raptor 1NT overcall? ;-P

[Trinidad]

I would have bid 2♣ the previous round. It is very hard to handle a 2♣ overcall after a 1♦ opening. It is even harder to handle a a 2♣ overcall after a Precision 1♦ opening.

Now that I didn't overcall the previous round, I would double (which is take out of hearts). Despite the fact that my shape is almost ideal for the double, I find this double much more dangerous than the 2♣ overcall the previous round.

Rik

[l milne]

I play double as penalties, showing a "trap pass" (lol) of diamonds. I don't know how common this is any more. Sure, it would be great if double were takeout for this hand, but for me it's not.

[gwnn]

2♣ first round bid more often 1st round, have headaches less often 2nd round

[Free]

 gwnn, on 2010-December-26, 16:53, said:

2♣ first round bid more often 1st round, have headaches less often 2nd round

I deliberately didn't put that option in the poll, because it's not relevant to the argument

[gnasher]

Double seems obvious, and I agree with the first-round pass. This is a three-suiter with short hearts, not a one-suiter in clubs.

[pooltuna]

doubles in this type of auction should be TOX of the suit where the information you have about the suit is clear. In this case a TOX of ♥ since the ♦ are so nebulous in precision.

[nigel_k]

Double could be interpreted as penalties with good diamonds, but presumably I can overcall 2♦ natural so why would I trap pass when opener hasn't shown diamonds and it will probably come back to me at two of a major. Plus double could work quite often, even if partner does misunderstand and pass. Second choice is 2♠ not 2♣. I wouldn't pass.

[whereagles]

Agree to pass 1st, now double.

Delayed doubles are normally for take-out of the second suit.

[l milne]

Oh right, 1♦ was precision... double now which is takeout, trap passing would be very unusual.

[ggwhiz]

Double and lead a spade, influenced by the crap that our local precision pairs open 1♦ on.

Passing at matchpoints on these colours is a non-starter for me but must happen a lot judging by the way they bid.

[JLOGIC]

I like to play double here as a strong hand with diamonds. I think this is a minority belief though and that most people would treat it as takeout of hearts which is perfect on this hand.

[l milne]

 JLOGIC, on 2010-December-29, 22:25, said:

I like to play double here as a strong hand with diamonds. I think this is a minority belief though and that most people would treat it as takeout of hearts which is perfect on this hand.

even with the nebulous fella?

i agree with a 4+♦ and have had some good results at imps, but haven't discussed over a 2+ (1+, 0+?) minor.

[the hog]

 JLOGIC, on 2010-December-29, 22:25, said:

I like to play double here as a strong hand with diamonds. I think this is a minority belief though and that most people would treat it as takeout of hearts which is perfect on this hand.

I also play it as a strong hand with Ds, as do most I know. Have to pass now. I would have overcalled 2C at first.

[han]

I play double is TO of hearts, as does my partner.

[mfa1010]

I would just pass. I need more for a double. Scrambling out to something might work out fine for us, but partner needs a lot of beef before we have them nailed and having them nailed sometimes should be an important factor for doubling here. Partner will rightly pass 1NTX a lot and double 2♥ a lot and it will all be very scary.

[JLOGIC]

 l milne, on 2010-December-29, 23:02, said:

even with the nebulous fella?

i agree with a 4+♦ and have had some good results at imps, but haven't discussed over a 2+ (1+, 0+?) minor.

Especially with a nebulous diamond. You are much more likely to have a good hand with diamonds over a precision diamond, and IMO it is good to pass with hands that you might overcall 1N with normally vs a precision diamond and then X, especially if they're vul.