[twix1]

During club play this hand came up. It should be simple but I can't think of the right bid

---

I feel possible bids are 2s,3s and 3c partner also suggest X can show drury or 2d, 4s was also suggested based on it being a 7 loser hand I'm not fond of that. So suggestions on what to bid here and the difference between 3c and 3s would be appreciated.

Scoring is MP

[whereagles]

It's common to play 2NT here as an offensive raise, which is what you have. 3♣ would show a more defensive raise (i.e. more prone to dbl opps than to bid on).

Another option is, seeing you're a passed hand and pard opened in FOURTH seat (so he should have some stuff), to bid a splinter 4♣. Would lead to a hopeless game, though.

[MrAce]

I would bid 3♣, because i am old fashioned and still play 2 NT natural and still play DBL as negative DBL. 3♠ would be a weaker hand than this.

Most people play 3♦ here as 5♦+4♠ as i do too, if u are not playing it u can use 3♦ perhaps.

[aguahombre]

3C is fine. Partner doesn't have an acceptance, I have an invite. Now try to make 3S and go on to the next hand.

[the hog]

Agree with 3C.

[twix1]

Should 3C imply shortness in clubs or just a good invitational raise

[aguahombre]

nah, just a hand worth about 10-12 dummy points for spades. This one feels like about 11.

[Yu18772]

twix1, on 2011-April-05, 23:37, said:

Should 3C imply shortness in clubs or just a good invitational raise

For me 3♣ is clear cut bid. At 3 level it just shows fit in spades and too good for 2....4♣ would be shortness and a bit better hand.

[Phil]

Stolen bid Drury? (groan...).

3♣. 2nd choice is 4♣.

[Quantumcat]

twix1, on 2011-April-05, 15:06, said:

I feel possible bids are 2s,3s and 3c partner also suggest X can show drury or 2d

Drury doesn't apply if the opening is in fourth-seat. If partner has a pre-emptive opening (which is what drury caters for) then he would have passed the hand out.

This reminds me of a funny conversation at my club, the auction was:

1♦ (P) P (X)
P (P) P

My partner's 1♦ showed exactly 4 spades and 8+ HCP, I passed with my yarborough and two spades, the pass-out opp doubled, and her partner with five diamonds, two hearts, and four good spades over my partner's tried her luck at leaving it in (the takeout double should be of spades, so her partner should be expected to have three diamonds). We made 1♦ with an overtrick, and it turned out the doubler had a 17 count with six good hearts. She was adamant that she had to double first to show a good hand, and didn't seem to understand that 2♥ in this situation could not possibly be weak, because if she had a weak hand she could pass it out.

[655321]

Quantumcat, on 2011-April-06, 20:59, said:

Drury doesn't apply if the opening is in fourth-seat.

Yes, it does.

Quantumcat, on 2011-April-06, 20:59, said:

This reminds me of a funny conversation at my club, the auction was:

1♦ (P) P (X)
P (P) P

My partner's 1♦ showed exactly 4 spades and 8+ HCP

<snip>

the takeout double should be of spades

No, the takeout double should be of diamonds.

[the hog]

Quantumcat, on 2011-April-06, 20:59, said:

Drury doesn't apply if the opening is in fourth-seat. If partner has a pre-emptive opening (which is what drury caters for) then he would have passed the hand out.

This reminds me of a funny conversation at my club, the auction was:

1♦ (P) P (X)
P (P) P

My partner's 1♦ showed exactly 4 spades and 8+ HCP, I passed with my yarborough and two spades, the pass-out opp doubled, and her partner with five diamonds, two hearts, and four good spades over my partner's tried her luck at leaving it in (the takeout double should be of spades, so her partner should be expected to have three diamonds). We made 1♦ with an overtrick, and it turned out the doubler had a 17 count with six good hearts. She was adamant that she had to double first to show a good hand, and didn't seem to understand that 2♥ in this situation could not possibly be weak, because if she had a weak hand she could pass it out.

Yes I agree, the takeout double is of Spades, of course. Lol at playing a t/o double of Ds in this auction; that shows lack of experience playing against such methods. A 1S bid is natural.

[655321]

the hog, on 2011-April-07, 01:44, said:

Yes I agree, the takeout double is of Spades, of course. Lol at playing a t/o double of Ds in this auction; that shows lack of experience playing against such methods. A 1S bid is natural.

It is a mystery to me why you need a takeout double of spades here. It might have escaped your notice that we are in the passout seat against a 1♦ contract, this is a completely different auction from the one where our RHO opens 1♦ showing spades (when I like to play double as takeout of spades, and 1♠ as natural).


Now hoggie, as regards manners and Lolling, it might have occurred to you at some time that bridge is a game where people compete against each other in bridge competitions. A person who never wins bridge competitions might even be considered not to be a successful player. Such a person might be better off using politeness each time he reads an opinion he disagrees with. Indeed, some might think that progressing from being an unsuccessful player to a successful one involves doing some (excuse my language) learning! Alas, just being rude to random people on the internet won't make anyone respect your bridge. Unfair, perhaps, but there it is.

[han]

I never win anything but I'm still tempted to use a lol in this thread. With a takeout double of spades you will either have diamonds (in which case you can pass or bid notrump) or have biddable hearts or clubs. However, when you are short in diamonds (not so strange as the passer will usually have a few diamonds) you will often be stuck unless double is takeout of diamonds.

[whereagles]

Sorry, but I agree with hoggie. As we've seen, passing 1♦ doesn't show diamonds, so spades is the only suit opponents have actually showed. Therefore you might want to use dbl as take-out of spades. You don't need to, but you might want to.

In fact, suppose you're playing against transfer preempts. Such openers are unusual but there are two trends for dealing with it. Example:

3♣ (♦ pree) ??

Trend 1:
Dbl = I have clubs and an opening
3♦ = take-out of diamonds

Trend 2:
Dbl = take-out of DIAMONDS
3♦ = michaels-like cue, i.e. majors

You can deem this 1♦ opener as a transfer pree and use trend 2 for dealing with it. However, it showing a but 4-card spade suit, there's a case for letting go the michaels variant and using 1♠ as natural, as hoggie suggested. With a heart/m two suiter, just overcall 1♥ and bid the minor later.

[Phil]

A question about raising partner as a passed hand has morphed into how we defend against Moscito or TOSR.

Threadjack of the year.

[JLOGIC]

whereagles, on 2011-April-07, 05:13, said:

Sorry, but I agree with hoggie. As we've seen, passing 1♦ doesn't show diamonds, so spades is the only suit opponents have actually showed. Therefore you might want to use dbl as take-out of spades. You don't need to, but you might want to.

In fact, suppose you're playing against transfer preempts. Such openers are unusual but there are two trends for dealing with it. Example:

3♣ (♦ pree) ??

Trend 1:
Dbl = I have clubs and an opening
3♦ = take-out of diamonds

Trend 2:
Dbl = take-out of DIAMONDS
3♦ = michaels-like cue, i.e. majors

You can deem this 1♦ opener as a transfer pree and use trend 2 for dealing with it. However, it showing a but 4-card spade suit, there's a case for letting go the michaels variant and using 1♠ as natural, as hoggie suggested. With a heart/m two suiter, just overcall 1♥ and bid the minor later.

You're in passout seat bro! I don't think anyone would recommend 1D ?? X being takeout of diamonds.

[gnasher]

Getting back to the original post, I'd drive game with the South hand. It's a bit unlucky to find North with 3-3 in the red-suits, and 4♠ still has play.

[whereagles]

@justin: huh? Maybe you read it too fast. That was just an example. In our case the comparable auction using trend 2 would be

1♦ pass pass ??

Dbl = take out of spades
1♠ = spades, since this seems more useful than a michaels cue

[peachy]

If you have a bid to show 4-card limit raise, use it. If not, or if on uncertain ground (pickup for example), then 3C.