[the_dude]

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I struggle with this hand every time it comes up...

(Playing generic 2/1 with a random partner) ... Holding the South hand, over 2♥ it is still not clear to me that Hearts is the correct trump suit. So I bide time with 3♦, and over 3NT I don't know what to do. I choose 4♥ as likely the best contract but partner (as expected) assumes this is a slam try. GG.

Any ideas? Do I give up on spades over 2♥, otherwise I don't know where to go from there (assuming standard-ish methods - and for now my regular partners inisit on sticking with secondary jumps as invitational).

Thanks!

[Hanoi5]

Maybe you should pass 3NT? There's not much space for investigation in this hand so 4♥ should not be taken as a slam try but just trying to get to the best strain. If you were interested in slam and hearts you could make a cue-bid or a RKCB over 2♥ (as 3♥ is an invitation) so 4♥ should be like 'I was trying to get to a better contract and I really don't like 3NT'.

I usually prefer the North hand to bid 2♣ instead of 2♥ (although in this case it is hard to argue with such a good suit), as the bid is hardly staying there and there'll be time to rebid the hearts again. You could also bid 3♠ over 2♥ in this case to show your great suit and then your partner would be the one asking for advice.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Bidding 6-4-6 would show a better hand than 6-6-4, so I agree with Hanoi on a 2C rebid.
( This also conserves space for strain exploration ).

1H - 1S
2C - 2D! ( F1 )*
3H - 4H
_______________________________________________________________________
* This is ONE of only TWO 4th suit auctions where Opener has made a limiting bid and
Responder's 4th suit is NOT a reverse; hence, 1 Rnd Forcing instead of GF .
( The other one is : 1D - 1S, 2C - 2H ) .
_______________________________________________________________________

Opener jumps to 3H to invite with his stellar suit, since 2H can be passed.
Responder accepts and 4H should be recognized as a sign-off now.

[Yu18772]

Totally agree on the 2♣ rebid, and the auction suggested by TWO4BRIDGE makes a lot of sense.
Another thing I would say - I wouldn't think that 4♥ is a slam try in this position, you could bid 4♣ for that. For me (and I might be wrong) it would show some very distributional hand (6-2-5-0? or something like it) that really doesn't want to play NT for whatever reason.

[the_dude]

Thanks for the responses. I don't really want to dwell on North's bidding (he could have easily had one less club and one more diamond) .. because my question is really whether the above sequence is a slam try or search for correct trump suit.

For example, with

AKxxx
Kx
AQxx
xx

Might I not bid the same way? Now I *want* my partner to go on with an appropriate maximum. You you agree as a partnership that this auction is not a slam try and only searching for the correct trump suit? .. because if so I don't know how to make a slam try. This auction has always driven me mad.

Thanks

[gnasher]

You can improve things by playing 2NT as an artificial game-force. That makes your minor-suit bids completely natural, allows you to investigate the best major-suit fit, and usually lets you make an unambiguous slam-try in hearts.

If you're stuck with entirely natural methods, I think it's best to assume that responder is looking for the best game until he makes it clear that he wasn't. In the specific sequence that you had
1♥-1♠
2♥-3♦
3NT
responder could bid 4♣ if he wanted to make a slam try, so the cost of playing 4♥ as a signoff is small.

As you've noticed, the biggest problem is knowing whether you're on the same wavelength as your partner. Natural methods aren't always either simple or easy to play.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I know Meckwell uses the following as GF:
1H - 1S
2D - 2S! = artificial GF

What I'm not sure about is if they also use 2S! as GF over a 2H rebid:
1H - 1S
2H - 2S! = GF ??

...because the following auctions might be agreed to as 4s/6+minor = weak or invitational for Responder:
1H - 1S
2H - 3C/3D

[Quantumcat]

Yu18772, on 2011-April-30, 00:43, said:

you could bid 4♣ for that. For me (and I might be wrong) it would show some very distributional hand (6-2-5-0? or something like it) that really doesn't want to play NT for whatever reason.

There was a bidding forum problem in Australian Bridge a long time ago similar to this, except responder had 5044 and opener had 1615, and 6♣ was an excellent contract. The winning bid was 4♣ from memory.

[JLOGIC]

Quantumcat, on 2011-May-01, 19:10, said:

There was a bidding forum problem in Australian Bridge a long time ago similar to this, except responder had 5044 and opener had 1615, and 6♣ was an excellent contract. The winning bid was 4♣ from memory.

Maybe north should not bid hearts, hearts, NT with 5 clubs if he wants to get to 6C? lol

[P_Marlowe]

the_dude, on 2011-April-29, 14:54, said:

---

I struggle with this hand every time it comes up...

(Playing generic 2/1 with a random partner) ... Holding the South hand, over 2♥ it is still not clear to me that Hearts is the correct trump suit. So I bide time with 3♦, and over 3NT I don't know what to do. I choose 4♥ as likely the best contract but partner (as expected) assumes this is a slam try. GG.

Any ideas? Do I give up on spades over 2♥, otherwise I don't know where to go from there (assuming standard-ish methods - and for now my regular partners inisit on sticking with secondary jumps as invitational).

Thanks!

4H is just correcting the contract.

the only slam try you have in the given seq. is 4C.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Lurpoa]

the_dude, on 2011-April-29, 14:54, said:

---

I struggle with this hand every time it comes up...

(Playing generic 2/1 with a random partner) ... Holding the South hand, over 2♥ it is still not clear to me that Hearts is the correct trump suit. So I bide time with 3♦, and over 3NT I don't know what to do. I choose 4♥ as likely the best contract but partner (as expected) assumes this is a slam try. GG.

Any ideas? Do I give up on spades over 2♥, otherwise I don't know where to go from there (assuming standard-ish methods - and for now my regular partners inisit on sticking with secondary jumps as invitational).

Thanks!

Yes, your 4♥ after 3♦ is stronger than a direct raise of 2♥ to 4♥.
.