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No new minor forcing?

#1 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-June-25, 22:39


Same board, with GIB as South; no correction back to spades:

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#2 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-November-20, 18:13

Is there something I don't understand, since I expect NMF on hands like this?

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#3 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2011-November-20, 23:04

GIB needs 12 TP to bid NMF, that hand has only 11. The book bid is Pass, simulations are all over the place: 1x2♣, 2x2N, 1x2♠, 1x3NT, 1x3♠, 5xPass. I expect it's because of all the scattered honors outside hearts. Even with an 8-card fit, 3NT is probably just as good as 4♥.

That's IMPs. At MP, it's 10xPass, 1x2♣. At IMPs you stretch to bid vul games, at MP you're more cautious.

#4 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-November-20, 23:34

So, North wasn't strong enough to bid nmf (which allows for the possibility of stopping short of game) but he was strong enough to jump to 3N? How about the first hand in this thread?
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#5 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2011-November-21, 00:41

 Bbradley62, on 2011-November-20, 23:34, said:

So, North wasn't strong enough to bid nmf (which allows for the possibility of stopping short of game) but he was strong enough to jump to 3N? How about the first hand in this thread?


I approve of N's judgement. The hand is very NT oriented with the Quacks and Ts. You don't want to be in a thin 4M on that hand.
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#6 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2014-April-25, 21:57

How about this one?

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#7 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2014-April-26, 06:27

 Bbradley62, on 2014-April-25, 21:57, said:

How about this one?



here GIB should bid 1♦ then keep bidding ♠ till partner gets the message

GIB is too much of a point counter.

this hand has bid distribution and good intermediates in its long suit

so it doesn't have 12 pts is still worth GF
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#8 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2014-April-26, 08:05

Yes, North should probably start with 1♦ on this last hand. But GIB has (and knows he has) 15 total points, and he bids accordingly. (As South, I opened 1NT and North pushed to slam after 1N-2♥-2♠-3♦-4♠.) This hand, taken together with the first posted, demonstrates a pattern of erroneously rebidding 3N rather than NMF.
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#9 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-April-26, 16:41

 Bbradley62, on 2014-April-26, 08:05, said:

Yes, North should probably start with 1♦ on this last hand. But GIB has (and knows he has) 15 total points, and he bids accordingly.

Does a 1D response deny 15 total points, then?
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#10 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2014-April-26, 18:36

 barmar, on 2011-November-20, 23:04, said:

GIB needs 12 TP to bid NMF, that hand has only 11.

What are TP? In any case, based on the first two examples it looks like there is a bug in this auction.
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#11 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2014-April-26, 21:08

 cherdano, on 2014-April-26, 18:36, said:

What are TP? In any case, based on the first two examples it looks like there is a bug in this auction.

TP=total points: high card points plus 3 for void, 2 for singleton, 1 for doubleton, minus double-counting for short honors.
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#12 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2014-April-26, 21:14

 steve2005, on 2014-April-26, 06:27, said:

... so it doesn't have 12 pts is still worth GF


 1eyedjack, on 2014-April-26, 16:41, said:

 Bbradley62, on 2014-April-26, 08:05, said:

... But GIB has (and knows he has) 15 total points, and he bids accordingly.

Does a 1D response deny 15 total points, then?

I presume not. I was quibbling with the comment that North doesn't have 12 pts.
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