[mtvesuvius]

Playing with an expert partner in Bracket 1 of a Sectional KO, I held:

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IMPs, See alerts for the explanations.

1. What do you do over 1♦?
2. If you double, as I did, the auction will continue as above -- Agree with the second double?
3. What do you do over 3♣?

[helene_t]

Two first doubles are fine although I like a style in which this hand is not too strong for a 1NT overcall.

You really have to pass now imho. This is not a lebensohl situation.

[Hanoi5]

I'm no expert but I think both doubles are OK. The problem here is probably whether to believe in the opponents or not. Is 4♣ going down? Hopefully not so I guess I'd try 3♠.

[Furlan]

Yes, yes, pass. Done enough.

[Cascade]

I start with 1NT.

[gnasher]

1. Yes - can't think of anything better to do.

2. No. Double is not a takeout double of spades, it's a stronger takout takeout of diamonds. If I double, partner will expect me to have about 3 spades, not a singleton. There is a big risk that he'll leave it in, thinking that responder has psyched. I'd pass, again because I can't think of anything better to do.

3. Pass. We can't really have game on, can we?

[JLOGIC]

I would pass 1D. I abstain from part 2 because I just don't X 1D with this hand type ever, I'd rather pass then X and describe my shape well and try to guess about level later if it's spades. If 1D got passed out with opps vul I would be pretty happy, I am gonna go plus several hundred probably and we will very often not have game.

[JLOGIC]

Cascade, on 2011-July-08, 20:17, said:

I start with 1NT.

I just don't get this, I get the evaluation for NT (stiff jack, our source of tricks not breaking, possible issues with X etc), but I don't understand why at all red you would rather overcall 1N than try to defend (or double spades for takeout). On top of that you will frequently play a 5-1 fit after a 1N overcall (as you will after X p 1S p 1N imo, partner will correct with 5 spades usually).

edit: Thought it was MP, still would pass but obv I get that you are trying to not miss games sometimes that you might miss after pass.

[pooltuna]

I would take similar action to yours. Over 3♣ I would recall that partner took no action over 1♥. While I do not know if you have any agreements over 1♥ I would presume partner was busted and consequently am inclined to let him play 3♣.

[gordontd]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-July-08, 17:11, said:

1. What do you do over 1♦?
2. If you double, as I did, the auction will continue as above -- Agree with the second double?
3. What do you do over 3♣?

I'd have passed on the first round, and then doubled on the second round (on the assumption that it would have continued as before). Doesn't that describe my hand perfectly? Then we'd have Lebensohl available, and if partner still bids 3♣ (showing values) I can bid 3♠. More likely partner will bid 2NT and pass my 3♣.

[JLOGIC]

gordontd, on 2011-July-09, 05:30, said:

I'd have passed on the first round, and then doubled on the second round (on the assumption that it would have continued as before). Doesn't that describe my hand perfectly? Then we'd have Lebensohl available, and if partner still bids 3♣ (showing values) I can bid 3♠. More likely partner will bid 2NT and pass my 3♣.

It describes your hand perfectly except for like the 7 extra points. Even if you play lebensohl, partner will not show values with many hands that can make game since his range is also very wide, and we can't use the handy "play partner for about 7 points" rule in this case.

[hotShot]

Cascade, on 2011-July-08, 20:17, said:

I start with 1NT.

That is what I would do.
Often LHO won't be strong enough to act on the 2 level, so often this move shuts off EW communication, leaving W with a complete guess for his lead.
As Justin points out the question is: Will North bid on?
North should ask himself why South decided against dbl and North should reconsider what to do with his weak hand.

[gszes]

I am not a huge fan of 1n overcall (vs pass or x)
and feel my hand is just wayyy too strong to pass.

I would also x and as the auction continues the 2nd x
which sounds like a balanced 18-19 is a very reasonable
x because spades probably wont play well for the opps.

P has bid 3c despite looking at probably 4 spades and
short diamonds. THEY ARE BROKE do not consider there is
much of any game chance here and be happy p wasnt the one
bidding spades.

[ArtK78]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-July-08, 17:11, said:

1. What do you do over 1♦?
2. If you double, as I did, the auction will continue as above -- Agree with the second double?
3. What do you do over 3♣?

1) I pass for lack of any reasonable call.

I do not double with a singleton spade unless I have massive extra values. This hand is getting close, but is not so huge that I would think "Oh, crap" if it were passed out.

2) Having passed over 1♦, I would double 2♠. Of course, it has a different meaning than your second double - it is clearly for takeout of spades.

3) I would bid 3♠. At least I have shown spade shortness, a club fit and a great hand on this sequence.

[Phil]

I would pass initially. Most of the continuations rate to be positive, or at least not worse than any other initial flawed action:

The most frequent continuations seem to be:

- After 1N, pass, pass, I have an easy x.
- After 1♠ - 1N, I'll pass
- After 1♠ - 2♣, I'll pass
- After 1♠ - 2♠, double

I can stomach 1N initially. I loathe x.

(edit- by the way, I think a very reasonable, perhaps preferable call is a natural 2♦. This would be automatic over a 1♥ opening, so why not here??)

This post has been edited by Phil: 2011-July-09, 14:58

[MrAce]

It depends on how u agreed to treat their short 1m opening.

-If u are treating it as no different than 3+, then i think starting DBL is not my choice, since my ♦ bid later will be a cue and my 2nd DBL later will give different msg as Andy said.

-If you are treating this kinda 1m opening in a way that you ignore they opened it, i think DBL makes more sense than previous agreement but with this i wld still pass

This second treatment gives you some extra options such as 1♣-2♣ or 1♦-2♦ calls being natural and more..but takes away either some major preempts or michaels...Not sure which one is better, probably depends on which hand types opponents open with 2 cards and how frequently.

[Cyberyeti]

JLOGIC, on 2011-July-09, 06:07, said:

It describes your hand perfectly except for like the 7 extra points. Even if you play lebensohl, partner will not show values with many hands that can make game since his range is also very wide, and we can't use the handy "play partner for about 7 points" rule in this case.

What 7 extra points. The second double shows your first double was offshape and thus must have a lot of extras in my book. What minimum hand are you suggesting for this auction ?

Also clear cut lebensohl situation for me over the second double, and partner should evaluate which 3♣ bid to make in the expectation of me being too strong for a 1N overcall.

[Onedown]

JLOGIC, on 2011-July-09, 05:06, said:

I just don't get this, I get the evaluation for NT (stiff jack, our source of tricks not breaking, possible issues with X etc), but I don't understand why at all red you would rather overcall 1N than try to defend (or double spades for takeout). On top of that you will frequently play a 5-1 fit after a 1N overcall (as you will after X p 1S p 1N imo, partner will correct with 5 spades usually).

edit: Thought it was MP, still would pass but obv I get that you are trying to not miss games sometimes that you might miss after pass.

Regardless of vulnerability where are we going here? If I double, do I want to hear 4♠? No, Jlogic has it right, pass and defend unless you can take action when it comes back to you. I pass and defend anything!

[the hog]

Does this hand really qualify for a 1NT overcall? Yes you have 5 tricks off the top, but in terms of HC it is too strong and anyway a S lead and H through and you are in deep poo. Why not pass this first up?

[mtvesuvius]

OK so people are all over the place here.

I thought this was definitely way too strong for a 1NT overcall, and so that was out of the question. We did not have a natural 2♦ available, but even if we did, it looks like an underbid.

Partner is never bidding 4♠ if we double, there simply isn't enough values left, and if they somehow do have a 4♠ call, more power to them. Given that we are unlikely to hear a bunch of spades from partner, I figured that Double was a reasonable start.

Once I chose to double and the auction came back to me, I felt fairly pleased to be able to double again. I think this should be a stronger-than 1N type hand, or just general purpose extras. This seemed like the perfect description, and I was happy with whatever partner chose to do.

Over 3♣ I wasn't happy about it, but I chose to pass. It seemed unlikely that partner had a perfecto to make 5m or 3N, given that they couldn't take a call over 1♥.

I think at MPs, passing this hand is reasonable over 1♦, but at IMPs, it is simply asking for trouble. If I had passed, it would have gone 1♠ by LHO, and 2♠ by RHO. Now if I double, 2N by partner probably should be scrambling (or is at least standard that way), so when partner bids 3♣, I'm still just as bad off, and perhaps worse: I feel like I have underbid by a lot now.

So the full deal was:

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Partner took 10 tricks... Of course 3N is gin with the perfecto that partner had, but I thought it was a very interesting bidding problem even if unsolvable.