[red dwarf]

after the following bidding sequence: all vul

N........E.........S..........W
2♥ pass pass 3NT

what do you take the 3NT bid to mean?
yours
red

[daswallow]

In my opinion:
The 3NT bidder expects (hopes?) to make opposite an average hand opposite, for the bidding so far. I expect he has a good 18 or so points, fairly balanced. He shouldn't have much more or else would start with a x. He could have tried 2NT with good 14 to bad 17 points.
Alternatively, he could have a hand with a long running suit and a heart stopper, and gambling on 3NT coming in.
Either way, you need a v good hand in the context of the auction to take any further action. Neither should you pull to 4s with a poor 6 card suit.

[vang]

imo, he has a gambling type hand (long minor, heart stopper). with a balanced hand above 17 HCP he can start with double and rebid NT on level 2 or 3.

[Chamaco]

vang, on Oct 12 2004, 12:08 PM, said:

imo, he has a gambling type hand (long minor, heart stopper). with a balanced hand above 17 HCP he can start with double and rebid NT on level 2 or 3.

Y, that's the most likely hand: 7-8 tricks + stopped suit.

[sceptic]

2 heart pass pass 2nt shows 18 - 20 points, so wit h good hand you would use this forcing (I think) bid, all your systems are on.

3nt must show a long suit, with a heart stop, which means he should have a spade stop also, other wise a spade lead could set him if cards are not right

[Chamaco]

sceptic, on Oct 12 2004, 12:54 PM, said:

2 heart pass pass 2nt shows 18 - 20 points, so wit h good hand you would use this forcing (I think) bid, all your systems are on.

Most people play that in direct seat 2NT shows a weaker rnge:

2H-(2NT) would show 16-to bad 19, sometimes even a good 15.

In the balancing seat, 2H-p-p-2NT may be a little weaker, and I'd say it promises 15-17/18.

[inquiry]

Well, let's eliminate the clearly wrong meaning.. this is not "unusual" this is to play.

Your partner can have either one of two types of hands.

1) A balanced hand with a lot of hcp and no interest in playing spades (he maybe even 1444 with singleton spade A or K). This should be in the range. The fewer high card points, the more likely a second or third trick in their suit. The few the hcp, the more likely a good side card five card suit. I wouldn't go down quite as low as 18 hcp.

2) An unbalanced hand with a heart stopper and a good source of tricks in a minor.

I see no reason it can not be both, and I bid 3NT here with both hand types.

[Fluffy]

2NT reopening to me is 11-14

X + 3NT for 19 balanced

X specting to see a lebenshol positive bid +3NT for the 15-18

3NT bid directly is just gambling, with strong balanced you better start doubling and then bid NT, this way partner is able to bid 4♠ with some support confidence.

[mr1303]

2NT showing 11-14 is much more dangerous in balancing to a weak 2 than in balancing to a 1 level opening, as responder may well pass on a strong hand with no fit. It is correct to reduce the values needed for this bid slightly, but 14-16 is about the limit.

With 17-19 here I double first, then bid 2NT if partner bids 2S. If partner bids 2NT, Lebensohl I usually complete the puppet, as partner cannot have a good hand.

With 20+ I decide what kind of mood I'm in, whether I double and bid 3NT, or just bid it straight off.

In direct seat 2NT = 16-18, X then 2NT = 19-22, X = then 3NT = 23+, 3NT direct = long solid minor, stopper.

[red dwarf]

thankyou all,
interesting replies, i have to say i took 3nt the same way as mr1303, showing @ 20+ points. anyway this is what partner actually had:

♠ 7 6 3
♥ A 9 5
♦ AQJ8
♣ K 9 8
Now what baffled me was partners reply when later i said i didn't understand the 3NT bid, i am in protective seat and bidding your hand? was the reply
i think that ops failure to bid over 2H suggested to my partner that south too was weak and therefore i must have a good hand!!

[Free]

Red Dwarf, I would like to play against that partner of yours every time! My partner will open weak two's and I'll ALWAYS pass my first round of bidding He'll get slaughtered like a little lam

[inquiry]

I will be less caustic than free... your partner had a germ of a good idea. When the opponents stop at a low level, it is often the hcp are relatively evenly distributed. The more points the "balancing" partner has, the fewer his partner will have and vise versa.

This is why fluffy said that a 2NT reopening bid for him "is 11-14". No sane person would contract for 2NT unless they (correctly) assumed their partner had some values on the given auction. So Fluffy is playing his partner for between 8 and 12 points probably (something like that). So in fact, I think your partner's hand would fall directly into the kind of hand fluffy would balance 2NT on.

The problem with the leap to 3NT on a 14 hcp hand on the theory that partner must have something is that, well, often he will not. IF the responder lacked a fit for his partners weak two, he might pass with a very nice hand. If the people where you play don't do this, then first, be aware that in most places they do. Second, you start passing without any signs of discomfort when you don't fit your partners weak two and have some significant values, and then wait to double people with the same theory as your partner, and three.. enjoy roping them in and the side benefit of scaring htem out of balancing when they should because of past -800 to -1400 you threw on them.

Ben

[joker_gib]

inquiry, on Oct 13 2004, 08:42 AM, said:

IF the responder lacked a fit for his partners weak two, he might pass with a very nice hand.

And that is reinforced by the fact that you have stopper and length in the weak two to bid NT, of course !