[Quartic]

In an inter-club teams match you pick up an extremely distributional hand vulnerable in first seat:

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The auction proceeds as shown, how do you continue?

Would you have bid any differently earlier?

[Hanoi5]

We're red they're white and there's a person right infringe of us who knows it. If we pass it'll be forcing but we don't want to hear double. I'd bid 5♠ and take it from there.

[whereagles]

The hand has an odr of NINE. I can't imagine a more offensive hand, so 5♠.

[phil_20686]

I voted for pass, but I'm not sure I understand all the inferences from this auction.

For example, if partner had Axx AQxxx KQxx x would he be obliged to bid 3d and then 4 spades to show extras with implied club shortage?

To me the 4S bid suggests he has a relative pile of rubbish. I seem to need lots of aces to make 5 clubs. If I bid 5 spades and partner has Axx KQJxx KJT xx am I meant to feel unlucky? I feel like the oppo have given me fielders choice, and I would be a fool not to let partner have a whack if he wants one.


Obviously if its impossible for him to have 4 good diamonds in a decent 3541 hand then it would be different.

[Statto]

 Quartic, on 2012-January-29, 13:54, said:

Would you have bid any differently earlier?

I'd have either opened 1♣ or not at all - that way I should either get to show both of my suits, or have more information to "take a view", and won't mislead partner as to the defensive capabilities of my hand. If I'm going to open ♠, I'd do so at a higher level, probably 4♠, since I may never really be able to show the ♣.

[bigbenvic]

I'm bidding 5♠ I have 0 defence to 5♦ - I'll get the 'sorry pards if you have it beat in your hand and we're not making' ready, just in case. I have somewhere between 4&5 losers, would need to have a firm understanding about what pass and rip the X to 5♠ shows.

I would have bid 3♣ after pards bid 2H with the intent of bidding them again and again if I can! if pards has the right 11 count with as little as Tx in ♠ slam would be a fair chance. 2♠ won't ever find it IMO (yeah I know 1% chance but it could happen)

Bidding ♣ also gives him some chance to compete the hand better- it gives the enemy a clue to but only partner KNOWS if we have a double fit, the opps are guessing!

[Statto]

 whereagles, on 2012-January-29, 15:14, said:

The hand has an odr of NINE. I can't imagine a more offensive hand, so 5♠.

I'm curious, how do you calculate this? I've not come across a numerical scale for ODR, so I'd be interested to learn...

[Cthulhu D]

As the curious, why not bid 3C over 2H?

[Flameous]

3♣ has the problem that it shows extras. Sure we have them, but not in a way partner expects. If it typically shows 54 and 15+ count, could have 55 and 12+ count, certainly 66 and 9+ count is enough for what comes to trick taking potential. Problem is that partner likely can't evaluate in time.
Compare to situation where partner bids 2NT over 2♠ and we get to bid clubs couple of times. Couldn't quite expect partner to take all our room away.

Now I don't see any other bids but 5♠. I'm hardly sure of making it but partner has trumps for me so even if partner happens to hold enough diamonds to beat, 5♠ might be making.

If 4♠ was picture bid like it would be for me, suggesting 4♠ 5+♥, concentrated values and minimum GF, I'm passing and bidding since them I only need club singleton for slam.

[aguahombre]

Did anyone notice the Double of 1S? The whole bidding diagram makes no sense to me. We could have been playing in 2H if opener had less wild distribution.

Apparently North was in on the joke, also, with silence over the non-forcing non invitational 2H bid...then 5D out of the blue. South must be wondering WTF is going on, and so am I.

[gwnn]

 Statto, on 2012-January-29, 22:59, said:

I'm curious, how do you calculate this? I've not come across a numerical scale for ODR, so I'd be interested to learn...

he calculates offence-defence (number of tricks on offence minus number of tricks on defence). it is technically ODD (offence defence difference) but that doesn't sound very nice.

[aguahombre]

 gwnn, on 2012-January-30, 02:49, said:

he calculates offence-defence (number of tricks on offence minus number of tricks on defence). it is technically ODD (offence defence difference) but that doesn't sound very nice.

ODR=offense/defense ratio. But ODR doesn't smell very nice.

[whereagles]

 gwnn, on 2012-January-30, 02:49, said:

he calculates offence-defence (number of tricks on offence minus number of tricks on defence). it is technically ODD (offence defence difference) but that doesn't sound very nice.

Affirmative.

By the way, note that 5S also carries another message: "I'm not interested in slam, ok?"

[Codo]

I may not have duplicate the bidding at the table, but now I must bid 5 ♠. Pas and pull shows a much stronger hand and pass- and pass parters double show a very different hand.

[Zelandakh]

Another option that might have been considered is to start with 1♣ and then keep rebidding spades at whatever level is required. I understand this is not a common thing to do in American methods though and also comes with its own downside. Now 5♠ seems to be the only option. I am worried about missing slam (partner can easily have ♥A, ♠A and ♣K) but see no safe way of identifying the perfect hand.

[Statto]

 gwnn, on 2012-January-30, 02:49, said:

he calculates offence-defence (number of tricks on offence minus number of tricks on defence). it is technically ODD (offence defence difference) but that doesn't sound very nice.

Ok, but I see about 7+ playing tricks, and a possible defensive trick (and adjusting for partners ♠ support still only 8/9 playing tricks and a probable defensive trick), so I don't arrive at an ODD of nine, though I agree the hand has a huge ODR making 5♠ standout

[whereagles]

Well, I'll easily make 5 spades and 4 clubs on my own. Since I can hardly belive I'll have a chance to cash the spade king, I count 0 defensive tricks. Hence I come to an ODR/ODD of 9.