[RunemPard]

Hello,

At a local tournament tonight, me and my partner ran into this hand...I do not remember my partner's cards, but I know how many points he had (19) and my point values. Must say...my partner is not the most skilled player, and often drives me nuts...

Partner opens 1S (12-19 HCP)(5+ S)

A pass brings the bidding to you holding...

xxx
x
AKJxxxxx
x

Holding 3 spades and 8 diamonds with 8 HCP (+ 2 singles of course), I chose to bid 2D hoping to find out more about partner's hand. My bid is a forcing bid, normally 10+ HCP. May have less points if long suit.

My partner replies 2NT...which to me said 12-14 HCP, balanced hand outside of diamonds(may have diamonds). Invite to 3NT.

I chose to bid a 4S signoff at this point with 3 spades, which thinking over again, I may of just gone for diamonds having no real entry into my diamonds. My partner, holding 19 HCP, chose to bid 4NT which I replied to...followed by a 6S.


6S-3 was the result...it could of went -2 had my partner played the hand a different way. 6D= was the best hand to play...but given the bid responses from my partner...I am not sure how I can come to that bid without just bidding 4NT myself after a minimum point reply.





How do you all feel this hand should of gone in the bidding? My partner held a single Q of diamonds and 17 other points dealt among his other suits. He had 5 spades, 3 hearts, 4 clubs, and 1 diamond. Should I have bid 4/5D directly after 1S? I felt no need to be so urgent when a simple jump from my partner would signal hand strength to me.

[Bbradley62]

RunemPard, on 2012-February-01, 19:51, said:

My partner replies 2NT...which to me said 12-14 HCP, balanced hand outside of diamonds(may have diamonds). Invite to 3NT.

This depends on partnership agreement (which you should discuss). There must be a "trash minimum" rebid for opener: some people play that it is 2♠ (not showing a sixth spade) and some people play that it is 2NT. If you play that 2♠ is the trash minimum rebid, then 2N shows extras.

[Bbradley62]

RunemPard, on 2012-February-01, 19:51, said:

Should I have bid 4/5D directly after 1S?

Would 4♦ not be a splinter in your system?

[RunemPard]

2S would show 6 card suit, minimum...
2NT denies a 6 card suit and is an invite to 3NT or 4S if I hold 3+.
3S would show 6+ spades with a 15-17 hand.
3NT in this case shows 15-17 HCP.
4S shows solid rebiddable spades with 18+ HCP.

Any bid of a new suit would be considered forcing.

[RunemPard]

Honestly...no clue how my partner would take 4D...LMAO! He is slightly above beginner...not that I am a pro...but a very good player IMO.

[RunemPard]

All I know from the cards I held...I need some kind of diamond support to raise my odds on the Q of diamonds...I need atleast one of the two singletons to be supported by my partner with an ace, and I need 3 helpers in spades... AKJ, AQJ, AKQ, AQT even may work...

If my partner holds S:AKQ H:A D:Q C:A ... That is 19 points alone. Which was the main reason I chose to take it slow...hoping for a signal from my partner directly.

[MrAce]

I think regardless of what 2 NT meant, 3♠ by responder here should be forcing. However AKJxxxxx 8 card suit is huge and even better when pd bids 2 NT. And when it comes to play something other than just game, considering pd bid 2 NT, i would want to be in ♦ slam than ♠ slam for various reasons. I think the hand with AKJ 8th ♦ should do more than just bidding 2♦. Even if pd has stiff ♦ that makes 9 card fit, combined with no entries to this side makes me think it is too early to set trumps as ♠ with only xxx.

[Statto]

Assuming you were playing a strong NT, then your partner should never have rebid 2NT with a 19 count, unless perhaps it was forcing and you had methods available to distinguish it from a 12 count.

[Codo]

RunemPard, on 2012-February-01, 20:06, said:

2S would show 6 card suit, minimum...
2NT denies a 6 card suit and is an invite to 3NT or 4S if I hold 3+.
3S would show 6+ spades with a 15-17 hand.
3NT in this case shows 15-17 HCP.
4S shows solid rebiddable spades with 18+ HCP.

Any bid of a new suit would be considered forcing.

This was obviously not true for your partner. For him 2 NT obviously showed a strong hand. And if you use your version above- how should he show a balanced 19 HCP hand?

[Zelandakh]

Here is an idea. Since your partner is "slightly above beginner" you could sit down with them and find out what they have been taught. If this is internally consistent then it would be a good starting point to play your partner's system initially. This is a common arrangement, for the better partner to play the other's methods. Over time you can introduce some improvements to these methods, just not so much as to overly confuse them and slowly enough that they are not overwhelmed with new stuff. Adding a rule that any "unnecessary jump" is a splinter bid might be such a change you could introduce early without causing any knock-on issues. Of course you would need to define what an unnecessary jump is!

In this way you are both always on the same page and your partner will improve over time and, hopefully, be able to see why the changes are a good idea. This could also help them to understand the way the bidding system fits together and improve their standard generally. It might even improve your own play to try something slightly different!

Anyway, noone here can tell you how the bidding should have gone without knowing which bidding system you had agreed. Undiscussed I would assume that a 2NT rebid showed 11-14 balanced and a 3NT rebid showed 18-19 balanced but there are other ways of playing too. You do not need a rebid to show a balanced hand in the 15-17 range since this hand would have opened 1NT.

Similarly it is not possible for the 2♠ rebid to promise 6+ since otherwise Opener has no rebid available with 5 spades and 4 clubs in a minimum hand. The fact that 2♠ does not promise 6 is one reason why it is attractive to use it as a general minimum in the way that Bbradley describes. Again, you need to discuss with your partner if this is the style that they learned.

One final thing, I do hope that your partner does not read these forums. Can you imagine your own reaction if you came here and read the comments about yourself? As a general rule it is a good idea to encourage and nurture those learning the game rather than publically ridculing them while telling everyone what "a very good player" you are.

[whereagles]

2D + 5D seems like a good bet to me.

If you play spades on a hand like this, you run a serious risk of the diamonds becoming worthless if dummy is tapped trick 2 (which was probably what happened at table).

[Cthulhu D]

I have a policy when discussing partnership issues a.k.a stupid cockups is that if I made a mistake it's 'my' fault, but otherwise irrespective if it was a joint effort or solely partner's fault any other mistakes are 'ours.' This avoids you sounding like a tool when discussing a bad board.

But yeah your system description doesn't cover everything or even some really basic stuff - you cannot show a hand not quite good enough to open 2NT, nor can you describe 'I'm sorry I opened this 5-3-3-2 11 count partner, please don't play me for any values or shape'

2S promises an extra spade and 2NT promises an extra honor that you don't have - or is partner not allowed to open a semi balanced 11 count with 5 spades? If partner is a beginner, why not open all 15-17 point hands 1NT even with a 5 card major, then 3NT shows 18-19 semi balanced and agree that partner can bid 2S here under extreme duress (small doubleton in your suit, minimum shape)