[daveharty]

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Matchpoints.

[CSGibson]

I'm putting 3♠ on the table. The shape is good, the vulnerability ok, the suit not that great, and I kind of want to give them the option to push to 4♥ with the impending bad split, giving partner the option of defending or saving based on exactly how bad the split is & how good a spade fit he has - if I just jumped to 4♠ they would tend to double rather than take a push to 5 in this auction.

[chasetb]

 CSGibson, on 2012-June-08, 13:00, said:

I'm putting 3♠ on the table. The shape is good, the vulnerability ok, the suit not that great, and I kind of want to give them the option to push to 4♥ with the impending bad split, giving partner the option of defending or saving based on exactly how bad the split is & how good a spade fit he has - if I just jumped to 4♠ they would tend to double rather than take a push to 5 in this auction.

This. Also, you should be playing that 2♠ is an Intermediate Jump Shift, which makes 3♠ stand out even more.

[JLOGIC]

I would usually bid 4S with this shape but the suit combined with side ace makes it pretty meh, we have lots of D against 4H, so I'd just bid 3S. I still have a feeling 4S is a better bid, they just bid 5H so much when we have a void and partner didn't overcall 1H, but oh well I'll be disciplined

[JLOGIC]

 CSGibson, on 2012-June-08, 13:00, said:

if I just jumped to 4♠ they would tend to double rather than take a push to 5 in this auction.

I don't think this is true, if we catch LHO with short spades and 5H he is going to bid 5H directly or bid it over p p X. Whereas if we bid 3S we let him get the 4H bid off his chest. Also, if LHO doesn't have 4H we might just catch RHO with 7 hearts and he has to bid 5H. Or if LHO has extras without 4 hearts he will probably double and then RHO will bid 5H a lot if he has 6 of them. I think the heart void combined with non 1H overcall of partner makes them taking the push to 5H much more likely than usual.

But our suit is so bad you never know someone may just have some trump tricks and pass the double. As you can tell I really want to bid 4S but I just can't pull the trigger, I have lost my heart lol, it wouldn't shock me if it was the winning bid at the table even though it's somewhat ridiculous. We will also find a good save sometimes when partner would have passed over 4H, if he has good diamonds and a mediocre spade fit our hand is pretty good and he wouldn't consider saving with that kind of hand sometimes.

[rmnka447]

I'll bid 3 ♠. Even though it's a 6 loser hand, ♠ suit quality isn't that great. So I'll be a tad more conservative bidding this one.

[han]

I would bid 4S, partner not having overcalled 1H is a big plus to me.

[jdeegan]

4♠ or maybe just 3♠. I was taught that all 7-4 hands should be bid to game. There are, of course, exceptions, and this may be one of them.

[daveharty]

The full hand:

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Yes, that's how it went. Declarer managed to set herself a trick, so we did all right, but if South is going to bid 4H directly over 3S with that garbage, I have a strong suspicion that one of them would have bid taken the push if I'd bid four. I just couldn't bring myself to do it with that horrible suit, I must be getting old.

[JLOGIC]

Umm no you were money, if south would pass 4S north would double and I bet south would find the pass with 3 trump tricks! You would go for your life

[gszes]

late to the party as usual but here is the minority report IMO we
should start the proceedings

1s

If our passed p has a spade fit we can profitably sacrifice at even 5s
but if p is short this gory suit could easily contribute to the opps plans
for early retirement. That plus the fact we have so much offensive
potential makes preemptive bidding a poor choice IMO. We require
little from p to make 4s and the only way we have a reasonable chance
of getting there (w/o just blasting and hoping) is to keep the bidding
Low and hopefully p will be able to rasie spades.

Picture p with something like

Axx xxxx Qx xxxx and you can see the enormous potential of this hand and
it is unlikely at these colors p will hazard a raise to 4s but p should raise
1s to 2s and then its all gravy

[TimG]

Is 1♣-(P)-1♥-(3♠)-DBL for penalties? Or is this one of those values-that-can't-otherwise-be-expressed doubles?

[JLOGIC]

Not penalty. x AKx KQJx AJxxx etc type hands, aka takeout.