[Yu18772]

2♠- 3♥- 4♠- 4NT?
Yu

[gnasher]

I voted "Something else", because I think it's two places to play. It could be both minors, or it could be something like 3-6 in hearts and a minor.

[mr1303]

What Gnasher said

[kenrexford]

Both minors or heart slam try.

[bluecalm]

Quote

Both minors or heart slam try.

Yep, I thought it's standard. I wouldn't mind playing it as any slam try though (then partner bids the nearest suit he wouldn't accept slam try in).

[Yu18772]

Thanks! at the table i assumed minors or minor+heart support and a slam try.....the guy meant blackwood.....
Yu

[kenrexford]

Yu18772, on 2012-July-03, 11:17, said:

Thanks! at the table i assumed minors or minor+heart support and a slam try.....the guy meant blackwood.....
Yu

He was stcuk, because they preempted 4♣.

[Zelandakh]

kenrexford, on 2012-July-03, 05:14, said:

Both minors or heart slam try.

I am surprised you play it this way ken. I am convinced that in this, and similar, auctions it is better to play an immediate 5♥ as a slam try and 4NT followed by 5♥ as competitive. This allows you to bid 4NT on hands with both minors, hands with just hearts as well as hands with hearts and a minor. If you play the more traditional way then you have to give up on the latter hand type as you are stuck if partner bids the wrong minor.

[kenrexford]

Zelandakh, on 2012-July-04, 01:52, said:

I am surprised you play it this way ken. I am convinced that in this, and similar, auctions it is better to play an immediate 5♥ as a slam try and 4NT followed by 5♥ as competitive. This allows you to bid 4NT on hands with both minors, hands with just hearts as well as hands with hearts and a minor. If you play the more traditional way then you have to give up on the latter hand type as you are stuck if partner bids the wrong minor.

If you have a hand with just hearts and either competitive or slammish, either way has no particular benefit.

If you have both minors, either way you bid 4NT.

So, the question you are raising is what to bid with hands that have hearts and a minor and note that you have a problem if partner bids the wrong minor. If that "wrong minor" is clubs, then either way the solution is to bid 5♦ in either method.

Thus, the sole question is how to handle a hand with hearts and clubs, apparently.And, in that situation, apparently you want to be able to get to the right game with that hand if either strain might be best. I am not sure how important that really is, though, and am not too worked up about it. For this to be a concern, partner must have a hand with great club support (4-card), preference for diamonds (four cards but better), and his starter five hearts, and hence a void in spades. That is a fairly narrow target to be concerned about.

For that matter, the correction to 5♦ as a "choice of games" suffers the same sort of rarity.

The issue, then, is whether you want to bid 4NT, hoping that partner does bid the right minor, so that you can pass this, when that makes sense. I get that. So, although the conversion to 5♦ is theoretically available, it misses the point.

But, then you lose the utility of the coversion as meaning anything important and useful. My way, I lose the ability to find the unlikely better strain in a minor, which might not actually gain, for the ability to make more slam tries and more intelligent slam tries, as I can make the conversion as a slam move.

So, you probably should not be surprised by that fact -- I default to better slam methods at the cost of some game bashing and perhaps inferior games bid. (I also by bashing keep the opponents in the dark when partner has the wrong minor.) Keep in mind, BTW, that partner's minor preference will not be a superior contract more often than it will be superior, as he preferences a minor with a 3-card suit even with a sixth heart. So, the election of my minor as his preference is not even assuredly good. In fact, if I only have one minor and hearts, and he preferences my minor, I would bet that he only has three of them a lot more than expected, as that means that we are both short in the other minor. So, the entire premise of the "best strain" seems flawed.