[phoenix214]

Had a problem in a recent tournament where we failed to bid slam. I do not remember the hands precisely, which is a bit of a problem, but some general advice could help.
In our system we systematically open 2NT with all 4333//4432/5332/5422(not 54M) and some 6m322 hands in the range of 19-20 points.
I got a hand that was of 2-4-2-5 shape, and 19 points. Had lots of controls, also points in the short suits.
I opened on 4th hand 2NT. Partner asked for 4M, found out i had 4♥ and raised to 4. Turned out he had 4th ace of hearts, 3rd king of clubs and a queen and a jack. Long story short, i got 12 tricks easily.
The problem is. How can you sort out problems with hands like these when you open 2NT? And are there ways to check for slams like these?

[ArtK78]

I am not going to try to reconstruct your hands from the information provided.

There is a reason that the 2NT opening bid is called "the slam killer." It is often very difficult to explore for slams intelligently after a 2NT opening bid.

As far as what partner coudl have done if he suspected that there might be a slam available, that depends on your methods after you find a fit using Stayman. If the opening bid were 1NT, responder could bid 3 of the other major with a shortness somewhere and 4♦ with a slam try with a fit and no shortness. But it is more difficult when the opening bid is 2NT. You need methods, and I am sure someone else will suggest a method that might have helped. Quite frankly, if I held Qxx Axxx Jxx Kxx and my partner opened a 19-20 2NT and I found a 4-4 heart fit, I would sign off in game myself (provided that I hadn't already bid 3NT and ignored the possibility of a 4-4 heart fit). Feel free to correct my representation of your partner's hand.

[wank]

the fault is your's for opening 2nt. making off-shape opening bids is something you do to circumvent awkward rebid problems, it shouldn't be routine. if you have no such issues you should open at the 1-level and try to describe your hand - it's not hard to get to nts later. this you can do easily on this hand, by opening 1c and bidding 2H over 1D (natural game force), 1S (natural reverse, forcing for 1 round but you will plough on to game) or 1NT (same again). if partner bids 1H, hopefully, you have another call available to show a flat balanced hand of similar strength so you can now bid 4H to show a strong hand with hearts and clubs. If 4H over 1H could include a balanced 18 you might need to be more creative, for instance by splintering in a kx suit or something.

[phoenix214]

Well my partners hand was something like the one you described(could have been 4432, but that is my fault of posting this about 4 days after the tournament with no hand records )
Well this is not the first time we have the problem as well with such hands, although i suppose a non-sophisticated natural system would not found the slam anyway.
I think the bidding we had was - 2NT-3♣(Asking), 3♥(4 or 5)-4♥. There is a trick to show slam tryish hands, but i do not think it helps.

The reason we open with such hands 2NT is because were playing a strong club that excludes minimum balanced hands(If opps interfere, we are sure that partner has more then a flat minimum).
The thing that worries me the most about this is, that how the playing strength of hand of shape 2-4-3-4 and 2-4-2-5 changes even in the same interval of high cards.

[Fluffy]

You are wrong, after a straigth forward 1♦-1♥-4♦ (5422 19-20 or 6421 strong) partner will know your hand very accuratelly, realicing how wonderful ♦Q is in your long suit.


There is a very big difference between 5422 and 4432, not only in offensive strength but also on orientation, 4432 is a good NT hand, 5422 is very very suit oriented.

[Fluffy]

BTW I open strong 1♣ with minimum balanced hands, partner knows that if they compete I will never reopen with them even on my doubleton, and that's all.

[Zelandakh]

phoenix214, on 2013-July-01, 15:24, said:

The reason we open with such hands 2NT is because were playing a strong club that excludes minimum balanced hands

Just how strong is your strong club that a control rich 5422 19 qualifies as a minimum balanced hand? I think you should have enough space to be able to sort out this hand type easily after a 1♣ opening. If you really have problems there then you could consider a Mexican 2♦ opening as an alternative (but probably less effective) solution.

[phoenix214]

Well checked system notes, which usually has solutions to these problems, and it actually says that i should open 1♣ with those, at least learnt something from the experience