[000ffj]

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As respondent,How will you try slam?
My idea is jump 4th suiter 4c=7keys three-suited-ask,It's reasonable and saving space.
After analysis of these sort of hands, You will find you have 3 suiters in both hands,and It’s not surely the best with 4-4 fitting suiter as trump.for example

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You can make 6d/s,but 6h

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You can make 6h,but 6d/s.
AKQ in 3 suiters you have are all important,how do you know how many of them you have in both hands?
Maybe my idea is one of plans:
jump 4th suiter=7 keys in 3 suiters asking
answer:
plus 1=2 keys at most without intresting in slam.
plus 2=3/6keys or 1key with 3 queens
plus 3=4/7keys or 2keys with 3 queens
plus 4=5 keys
responder can go on asking queen with close 4th suiter or nt
and answer:
plus 1=0/3queen.
plus 2=1 queen in lower suiter without queen in 4-4 fitting suiter
plus 3=1 queen in higher suiter without queen in 4-4 fitting suiter
plus 4=2queens without queen in 4-4 fitting suiter
plus 5=1queen in 4-4 fitting suiter
All is my fantasy.
and the highest asking-bidding is 5c:
example 1s-2h-3d-5c
the lowest asking-bidding is 3s:
example 1c-1h-2d-3s
or you can use 2s=asking when responder passed
example
1c-1d-1h-2s
2s=asking if it comes from passed hand

[000ffj]

deleted by 000ffj since missended by himself

[mr1303]

I'm not prepared to lose a splinter from my bidding arsenal. These hands are only an issue when you have both a 5-3 and a 4-4 fit.

If you want to be able to accurately bid these hands, I suggest you use relay methods.

[dake50]

Ask for DK. Nope then 6H.
Yup, then ask SKQ? #A? to grand 7H>7Nt may ruff 4th spade.

[PhilKing]

My head hurts. Why can't I just bid 2♠ then 3♥?

[ahydra]

PhilKing, on 2013-October-18, 06:16, said:

My head hurts. Why can't I just bid 2♠ then 3♥?

What if you're not playing 2/1? And after this sequence, what is trumps?

In standard you should be able to get away with 3C then 4H on this, preserving 4C as a splinter. The 4C three-suited-ask idea isn't a bad one but I think the responses can be improved a bit - perhaps even to show specifically what cards are held.

ahydra

[DJNeill]

3H. There are no bidding agreements mentioned, like last train or serious cue, but I think I am too strong for 4C without *anything* to striate partner's ranges if they don't have the dK. I will proceed to RKC unless partner bids 4H right then and there, which I think even without agreements means a pretty horrible hand.

[Free]

I'm also for 3♥. Whenever I have a 4-4 and a 5-3 fit I look to play in the 4-4 fit. In most cases (not all, like the 2nd example illustrates) this plays better. I'll end up in 5♥ missing a keycard and trump Q instead of 6♦ or 6♠ on the second hand, but I'll end up in 6♥ in the other cases. You can't have it all...

[PhilKing]

ahydra, on 2013-October-18, 07:10, said:

The 4C three-suited-ask idea isn't a bad one but I think the responses can be improved a bit - perhaps even to show specifically what cards are held.

ahydra

What possible reason is there to invent a load of gumph for this auction?

[000ffj]

Free, on 2013-October-18, 09:46, said:

I'm also for 3♥. Whenever I have a 4-4 and a 5-3 fit I look to play in the 4-4 fit. In most cases (not all, like the 2nd example illustrates) this plays better. I'll end up in 5♥ missing a keycard and trump Q instead of 6♦ or 6♠ on the second hand, but I'll end up in 6♥ in the other cases. You can't have it all...

You can get all by my way at least,but you refused it deep inside,Like a beautiful model, you'll always be just look not touch

[Free]

000ffj, on 2013-October-18, 18:08, said:

Like a beautiful model, you'll always be just look not touch

That's quite a poor comparison

[Zelandakh]

I already use unnecessarily high bids as showing a double fit in many auctions but here it strikes me as far too specific. Let me start by asking the OP what proprtion of hands that respond 2♦ would qualify for this 4♣ call. In the meantime you also have to consider what to do with all the other hands that would have used the normal meaning for the call, a splinter. In other words, if we had almost unlimited bidding space then this would be a decent idea to play around with; but in the absence of that we have to cater to all of the hands and not just a tiny fraction.