Help
I don't expect to get much of a sympathetic hearing to what is essentially a request for system change. All y'all have enough on your plates ironing out the flaky stuff that GIB does with its current system, not to have to worry about changing system. And it may well be that you prefer this aspect of the system as it stands. I just find that the logic eludes me.
For some time I have been frustrated by a point that crops up regularly: Use of 4th suit as a natural bid after a GF 2/1.
Thus, (all uncontested, and responder is a non-passed hand)
EG 1
1S; 2C
2D; 2H = 4 card Heart suit
EG 2
1S; 2D
3C; 3H = 4 card Heart suit
Possibly even
EG 3
1S; 2D
2S: 3C
3D: 3H = 4 card Heart suit
Not sure that I have all these examples right. By all means correct me. But neither is this a complete list.
In EG 1, personally I would normally rebid 2H with 5-4-4-0. But even if I rebid 2D on that hand, a 4-4 Heart fit is not lost if responder rebids 2N and then opener bids 3H.
In EG 2, it is pretty much guaranteed that opener does not have 4-4 Heart support.
Yes, we are in a GF auction following the 2/1. That said, the likelihood of a 4-4 fit in the 4th suit is very small. In all probability if no other fit has yet come to light you are going to end up in 3N if you have 4 in the 4th suit. I would have thought that use of the 4th suit bid is more useful in an artificial context even in an existing GF environment.
What say you?
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4th suit issues
#1
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Posted 2014-May-08, 12:10
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
s
t
r-m
nd
ing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
str-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees."Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#2
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- Joined: 2003-May-14
Posted 2014-May-08, 15:27
Agree 4th suit artificial.
#3
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Posted 2014-May-08, 16:12
I think EG 3 is very different from the first two because in that one you've already identified a fit whereas in the first two you have not.
For EG 1 and 2, can you provide an example of a hand with which you would want to bid hearts as fourth suit forcing without holding four hearts?
For EG 1 and 2, can you provide an example of a hand with which you would want to bid hearts as fourth suit forcing without holding four hearts?
#4
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- Joined: 2004-March-12
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- Location:UK
Posted 2014-May-08, 17:49
Bbradley62, on 2014-May-08, 16:12, said:
For EG 1 and 2, can you provide an example of a hand with which you would want to bid hearts as fourth suit forcing without holding four hearts?
I have had numerous examples in the past that I have not taken the trouble to record. I shall try to make an effort to note similar occasions in future and tack them on here.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
str-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees."Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#5
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- Posts: 4,097
- Joined: 2003-May-14
Posted 2014-May-08, 18:41
Bbradley62, on 2014-May-08, 16:12, said:
I think EG 3 is very different from the first two because in that one you've already identified a fit whereas in the first two you have not.
For EG 1 and 2, can you provide an example of a hand with which you would want to bid hearts as fourth suit forcing without holding four hearts?
For EG 1 and 2, can you provide an example of a hand with which you would want to bid hearts as fourth suit forcing without holding four hearts?
The hands that want to bid 4th suit are generally:
- no support partner's 1st suit
- not 4 cd support partner's 2nd suit
- not 6+ cards own suit.
-not stopper 4th suit
So mostly 5332 hands with no stopper in the unbid suit.
There's not much use in bidding the 4th suit naturally showing 4 when partner has denied 4 cds in it already. If you have 4 cds there and no fit, just bid NT.
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