[mightyky]

I have played cards all my life. I have been playing bridge for less than two years. I play once or twice each week with some friends. We play "party bridge". We play for fun and entertainment. I don't like and will not play duplicate....it is not fun for me.
I play here online and show my skill level in my profile as a beginner. I don't want to misrepresent my skill level to other players. I think I am probably at least an experienced beginner. I can play the cards very well, but have trouble bidding correctly.
I have played with people here with various skill levels and I think many of them are much better players than me.

What is the criteria used to determine the skill level?
Thanks, George

[straube]

http://bridgewinners...ing-your-level/

by Gavin Wolpert

Beginner: Someone who has just undertaken the overwhelming task of learning the game. Perhaps had 1 series of lessons or have read a book and have very little playing experience.

Novice: Has learned a few basic conventions, stayman, blackwood, jacoby transfers. Still not comfortable taking tricks and has trouble knowing what a lot of basic bids mean.

Intermediate: Aware of a few more conventions, such as Jacoby 2NT, 4th suit forcing, new minor forcing. Can handle SAYC. Uses attitude signals on defense but only in basic situations. Has a grasp of when bids are forcing and when are not. Has a grasp on most common auctions but hasn't developed strategy beyond following the rules they know.

Advanced: Rarely makes errors with their conventions on the card. Completely understands most common conventions and why they are used. Able to develop a solid partnership which includes competent partnership defense. Plays 2/1 or at least understands it and its benefits. Starting to understand squeezes. At this level players should be starting to get some game theory, typically having a reason for most of their actions.

Expert: Becoming an expert in my opinion involves a certain level of consistancy. At this stage players should understand most conventions and how to defend against them. They should have good judgment in low level competative auctions and a good understanding of hand evaluation (above and beyond just counting points) Won't miss a normal squeeze or endplay. To call yourself an expert you should be competitive in almost every flight A regional you play in.

World Class: To me this means you are among the best of the best. You are consistently competitive in national events. The level of consistency required to be world class is comparable to that of any sport. I'd say top 200 bridge players in the world deserve this title.

[diana_eva]

I think OP means to ask whether there are any BBO official rules for determining skill level. Skill level on BBO is self assigned, but here are the guidelines recommended by BBO:

Quote

It's tempting at times to overstate one's skill level. Sometimes players also understate their level because they're timid or just don't realize how good they really are. It's very helpful to be as accurate as possible in advertising how well we play bridge. Following these guidelines when stating your level of expertise wll make for a more pleasant bridge playing experience:

Private
This indicates you do not wish a skill level to be displayed when people view your profile information.

Novice
Someone who recently learned to play bridge.

Beginner
Someone who has played bridge for less than one year.

Intermediate
Someone who is comparable in skill to most other members of BBO.

Advanced
Someone who has been consistently successful in clubs or minor tournaments.

Expert
Someone who has enjoyed success in major national tournaments.

World Class Someone who has represented their country in World Championships.

Of course, you may at times find that you disagree with another's assessment of his expertise. If this is the case, it is not appropriate to mention this to him via private or public chat. You may be correct, but it may also be that he's just having an off day.

[Zelandakh]

Hello mightyky and welcome to the BBO forums. As Diana points out you are officially an intermediate on BBO. If you feel more comfortable self-rating as a beginner then this is ok too. There is a long-standing issue with BBO ratings that almost everyone is officially an intermediate so you will find that many average players self-rate as Advanced or even Expert. In other words, do not take the ratings system too seriously.

For the style of bridge you prefer, consider playing in the Relaxed Bridge Club, which has been created precisely for players such as yourself. If at any stage you decide you would like to improve as a bridge player then you might also consider becoming a member of the BIL (Beginner-Intermediate Lounge) which offers many lessons and events in return for a small fee. It is also a great place to meet like-minded players of a similar standard to yourself.

Above all just enjoy yourself!

[aguahombre]

Totally irrelevant to anything, of course, but IMO Gavin's quoted criteria are much more helpful guidelines than the actual BBO guidelines. Unfortunately neither guidelines are used by people to self-proclaim. Cudos to the OP for making the effort, but it sounds like he should upgrade to intermediate.

[blackshoe]

The problem with these rating systems is that they don't take into account those of us who are getting senile.

[aguahombre]

"World Class" is probably not a distinction the OP is concerned with yet. But, IMHO, having played in a world-class event doesn't get it done. For some jurisdictions the pickings are slim in sending players to international competition, and some international events do not require any pre-qual.

Also, I consider some to be of that class even though they have not yet had the honor of representing their NBO. Some have participated as Juniors, then got a whole lot better and are now knocking on the door of the Opens...Josh, Roger, etc. I doubt anyone would say Mark Itibashi or some who have never chosen to play internationally are not world class in skill level rank.

[neilkaz]

aguahombre, on 2014-May-23, 09:49, said:

Totally irrelevant to anything, of course, but IMO Gavin's quoted criteria are much more helpful guidelines than the actual BBO guidelines. Unfortunately neither guidelines are used by people to self-proclaim. Cudos to the OP for making the effort, but it sounds like he should upgrade to intermediate.

Yes, Gavins's guidelines are good.

I suggest that the OP prior to upgrading to intermediate, do a bit of work to improve his bidding (based on his own comment).

[Vampyr]

straube, on 2014-May-22, 23:35, said:

Advanced: ... Plays 2/1 or at least understands it and its benefits.

Hmmm... so there are no advanced players outside of North America?

[diana_eva]

Vampyr, on 2014-May-23, 21:18, said:

Hmmm... so there are no advanced players outside of North America?

Good point but if you click the BW link and read through the comments Fred addressed exactly this issue.

[helene_t]

It would be good for my ego if Gavin's definitions became official since I learned (and invented) dozens of conventions decades before my first duplicate and decades before I learned things like:
- as a general rule not to lead my highest card in partner's suit holding Hxx,
- to keep length parity with dummy when discarding,
- not automatically to play high in 3rd seat when there is an honour in dummy to finesse against,
- that honours in long suits are more valuable than honours in short suits, even for notrump play

But seriously: is a good bridge player someone who can win a Jeopardy game, or someone who can win a bridge tournament?

[eagles123]

straube, on 2014-May-22, 23:35, said:

http://bridgewinners...ing-your-level/

by Gavin Wolpert

Beginner: Someone who has just undertaken the overwhelming task of learning the game. Perhaps had 1 series of lessons or have read a book and have very little playing experience.

Novice: Has learned a few basic conventions, stayman, blackwood, jacoby transfers. Still not comfortable taking tricks and has trouble knowing what a lot of basic bids mean.

Intermediate: Aware of a few more conventions, such as Jacoby 2NT, 4th suit forcing, new minor forcing. Can handle SAYC. Uses attitude signals on defense but only in basic situations. Has a grasp of when bids are forcing and when are not. Has a grasp on most common auctions but hasn't developed strategy beyond following the rules they know.

Advanced: Rarely makes errors with their conventions on the card. Completely understands most common conventions and why they are used. Able to develop a solid partnership which includes competent partnership defense. Plays 2/1 or at least understands it and its benefits. Starting to understand squeezes. At this level players should be starting to get some game theory, typically having a reason for most of their actions.

Expert: Becoming an expert in my opinion involves a certain level of consistancy. At this stage players should understand most conventions and how to defend against them. They should have good judgment in low level competative auctions and a good understanding of hand evaluation (above and beyond just counting points) Won't miss a normal squeeze or endplay. To call yourself an expert you should be competitive in almost every flight A regional you play in.

World Class: To me this means you are among the best of the best. You are consistently competitive in national events. The level of consistency required to be world class is comparable to that of any sport. I'd say top 200 bridge players in the world deserve this title.

the problem with this as with any rating system is the huge jump from intermediate to advanced, but it's very useful so thanks

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2014-May-24, 06:06
Reason for edit: fixed quotes

[lycier]

helene_t, on 2014-May-24, 03:30, said:

It would be good for my ego if Gavin's definitions became official since I learned (and invented) dozens of conventions decades before my first duplicate and decades before I learned things like:
- as a general rule not to lead my highest card in partner's suit holding Hxx,
- to keep length parity with dummy when discarding,
- not automatically to play high in 3rd seat when there is an honour in dummy to finesse against,
- that honours in long suits are more valuable than honours in short suits, even for notrump play

But seriously: is a good bridge player someone who can win a Jeopardy game, or someone who can win a bridge tournament?

We ought to say the players's ego is a good thing and a kind of the reality of living :

1-BBOer can become someone worthy of respect, and someone who can pursue what we want despite the naysaying of others.

2- Everything we do involves our ego.

There is no denying that playing at bbo make the public more or less to get benifits,for example:fame, pride and self-respect.The public may yearn for this honour since almost of players at bbo have no way to get championship throughout the life.The public also desire for self-improvement and self-awareness.I think BBO should have a duty to care about it ,playing skill is just a tangible benefits.

3-The world of reality has its rules, the virtual network has its rules - as long as you think everything is true.

For example,assume that there is a real world championship,his bbo username is earth king,but he rarely play at bbo,his playing skill of world class is nothing to do with bbo,and his world class can't bring us any benifits.

We can find a basic fact that most of the old bbo players are better than newcome player on the playing skill.

If compatibility score is a right try,my suggestion is bbo should change compatibility score into fans score.

Its basic formula ：Fans score=years numbers of registration X hands played + logintimes

[barmar]

helene_t, on 2014-May-24, 03:30, said:

But seriously: is a good bridge player someone who can win a Jeopardy game, or someone who can win a bridge tournament?

It's not just knowing what the conventions are, but understanding them, i.e. being able to use them well.

Many of the qualities that go into being a good bridge player are subjective. If you're going to make guidelines for skill levels, you need to pick the few objective measures.

[kenberg]

Gavin's description is fine but maybe covers too broad a range to be useful to George.

" We play "party bridge". We play for fun and entertainment. I don't like and will not play duplicate....it is not fun for me."

Bridge is a lifetime of fun that can be played with whatever intensity suits you, now or later. I learned in 1961, we had another young couple over, tossed the kids (typically 2 or 3) in a room and dealt some cards.

Now Zel's suggestion to try the relaxed club sounds right.

But you asked about ratings. This relates to both skill and knowledge. Let's look at knowledge. I distinguish between natural bids and artificial ones.

Your partner opens a club, you bid a heart, partner rebids 2NT. You know what to expect of his hand?
Or: Your partner opens a club, you bid a heart, partner rebids 2D. You know what to expect of his hand?

These are natural sequences and mostly someone you play with will expect you to have a fair understanding of what they mean.

Now let's move to artificial bids You play transfers over partner's opening of 1NT? Most people do. But there is something called four suit transfers, and with variations. There are many players that I think you would be happy to play with who either don't know four suit transfers or would prefer not to play them.. No law requires it, and you can play quite a few hands without encountering one where they might be useful

So:

Let's say you are thinking What is an intermediate? I expect an intermediate player to know about the natural auctions above, although they may be unsure of how to handle follow-ups, and to know transfers into a major after an opening bid of 1NT. But quite possibly not four suit transfers.

Of course there are many more things of this sort, but this may give you some idea, or at least of how I see an intermediate.

If you read the above and say that no, you don't care about such matters, you want to just play for fun, that's fine, fun is good. I don't think you have to continue to play, after two years, as a beginner, but you could say novice. For that matter, novice and proud of it. We all, everyone of us, choose our level of involvement.


I hope this helps. Self-rating sometimes becomes self-advertisement or self-delusion. The purpose of a self rating is to find compatible partners.

[Zelandakh]

Ken, first of all Novice is below Beginner on BBO. I realise that many think of these the other way around but basically Novice = played less than 6 months and Beginner = played between 6 and 12 months. Secondly, I dislike the example of 4 suit transfers. I have been on BBO a number of years now and never once have I played this method with anyone. Moreover, there are plenty of intermediates in the Acol Club who do not play transfers at all; or Weak 2s for that matter. From what I remember the WP Club is also one which is more aimed at "fun bridge" with 16-18 NT being the norm and no transfers common. It has been a few years though so it might have changed.

Finally, I agree absoluteles with your summary. Therefore I wrote: "If you feel more comfortable self-rating as a beginner then this is ok too." Not Novice though - I think that is going to be more problematic than useful.

[lycier]

Most of BBOers are beginner skill all their life in fact,however for a free bridge websit online,this is a necessary fans base, if lack of mass base,there is no BBO in the world.
For BBO,expanding its fans base is a must,BBO may be worried about it due to playing skill rank.

[billw55]

eagles123, on 2014-May-24, 05:54, said:

the problem with this as with any rating system is the huge jump from intermediate to advanced, but it's very useful so thanks

I don't think this is a problem, just reality. Assuming a normal distribution of skill, intermediate is expected to have the largest population.

[kenberg]

Zelandakh, on 2014-May-27, 02:24, said:

Ken, first of all Novice is below Beginner on BBO. I realise that many think of these the other way around but basically Novice = played less than 6 months and Beginner = played between 6 and 12 months. Secondly, I dislike the example of 4 suit transfers. I have been on BBO a number of years now and never once have I played this method with anyone. Moreover, there are plenty of intermediates in the Acol Club who do not play transfers at all; or Weak 2s for that matter. From what I remember the WP Club is also one which is more aimed at "fun bridge" with 16-18 NT being the norm and no transfers common. It has been a few years though so it might have changed.

Finally, I agree absoluteles with your summary. Therefore I wrote: "If you feel more comfortable self-rating as a beginner then this is ok too." Not Novice though - I think that is going to be more problematic than useful.

Mea culpa, thanks. Getting the order confused was a beginner's mistake. Oops, a novice's mistake.

We appear to agree on the essetial point. Honest self-rating, if widely practiced, would assist people in finding partners.Some self ratnigs are useful only for their amusement value. A guy who has played cards al his life and has been playing bridge for coming up on two years should not plasce himself at the lowest level, But if he wants to "play for fun" and not get bogged down in a lot of "stuff", maybe the next level up is right, And if not, he can adjust it.

[blackshoe]

Novice, beginner, intermediate, advanced, expert. The first two and the last are nouns. The third and fourth are adjectives being used as nouns. Surely we could come up with better terminology.

Personally, I go with what the Martian said: "I am only an egg."