Help
MP club game, fav vuln, pard opens a multi 2♦ in first seat, passed to you. Your hand:
♥xx ♦QTxxxxx ♣Jxxx
Anything to say?
[multi is weak 2M, strong acol 2 in the minors, or massive balanced]
What response to multi? weak and distributional hand
#2
- The Abbess
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,199
- Joined: 2004-April-22
- Gender:Female
- Location:Copenhagen, Denmark
- Interests:History, languages
Posted 2014-October-11, 04:54
2♥. Probably partner bids 2♠ but if they don't double you it is ok (especially at favourable vulnerability). If they do double, you can always escape to 3♦.
If you didn't have the massive balanced hand in the multi, you could pass.
What would
2♦-(p)-2♥-(p)
2♠-(p)-2NT/3♣/♦/♥ mean?
I think a sensible agreement is that
2nt=weak one-suiter, opener bids 3♣
3♣/♦: weak with 5-5 in that suit+hearts
If you didn't have the massive balanced hand in the multi, you could pass.
What would
2♦-(p)-2♥-(p)
2♠-(p)-2NT/3♣/♦/♥ mean?
I think a sensible agreement is that
2nt=weak one-suiter, opener bids 3♣
3♣/♦: weak with 5-5 in that suit+hearts
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#3
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,831
- Joined: 2011-June-08
- Gender:Male
- Location:UK Near London
- Interests:Crystal Palace
Posted 2014-October-11, 07:51
Well tempting to pass
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
#4
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,247
- Joined: 2010-October-21
- Gender:Male
- Location:Texas
Posted 2014-October-11, 09:11
I think I'd PASS too.
Opps have one or both majors .
I don't think we want to play in 2H or 2S doubled .
Opps have one or both majors .
I don't think we want to play in 2H or 2S doubled .
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh
K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh
K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
#5
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 14,216
- Joined: 2009-July-13
- Location:England
Posted 2014-October-11, 09:17
TWO4BRIDGE, on 2014-October-11, 09:11, said:
I think I'd PASS too.
Opps have one or both majors .
I don't think we want to play in 2H or 2S doubled .
Opps have one or both majors .
I don't think we want to play in 2H or 2S doubled .
I'm not sure what the odds are, embarrassing when pd's hand is xxxx, AKxx, AKJ, AK or similar.
#6
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,866
- Joined: 2008-July-13
Posted 2014-October-11, 09:36
don't put strong hands in multis
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,247
- Joined: 2010-October-21
- Gender:Male
- Location:Texas
Posted 2014-October-11, 09:40
Cyberyeti, on 2014-October-11, 09:17, said:
I'm not sure what the odds are, embarrassing when pd's hand is xxxx, AKxx, AKJ, AK or similar.
duhh... I overlooked the strong option ; so, I guess I'm forced to bid 2H .
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh
K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh
K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
#8
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 14,216
- Joined: 2009-July-13
- Location:England
Posted 2014-October-11, 10:12
TWO4BRIDGE, on 2014-October-11, 09:40, said:
duhh... I overlooked the strong option ; so, I guess I'm forced to bid 2H .
It would be interesting to see a simulation as to what the chance of a strong hand is after 2♦-P with this hand, presumably one of partner and LHO has a big hand, but not sure what the odds are. It's a difficult sim to do as codifying which hands open a strong 2m and which hands pass over the multi are somewhat subjective.
#9
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 14,900
- Joined: 2004-May-11
- Gender:Male
- Location:Portugal
- Interests:Everything!
Posted 2014-October-11, 10:28
2♠. I'm ok with playing 3♥ if pard happens to have a weak 2 in hearts (fat chance).
#10
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,942
- Joined: 2005-January-28
- Gender:Male
- Location:Cologne, Germany
- Interests:Sleeping, Eating
Posted 2014-October-11, 11:01
I pass. It's not even embarrassing if partner's hand is KQJx AKJx xx AKQ or similar.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
-- Bertrand Russell
-- Bertrand Russell
#11
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 288
- Joined: 2007-August-07
Posted 2014-October-11, 11:12
Thks - we played it in 5♦X, through a pretty ropey auction. A bloodbath, but escaped with a half-decent score as opps have 6♥ cold.
So I was wondering if you could reconcile the desire to make an obstructive bid here that puts pressure on opps, whilst catering for the slight possibility that pard has a big hand. Maybe you can't?
(Massive balanced is 24/25 for us, so once in a blue moon).
So I was wondering if you could reconcile the desire to make an obstructive bid here that puts pressure on opps, whilst catering for the slight possibility that pard has a big hand. Maybe you can't?
(Massive balanced is 24/25 for us, so once in a blue moon).
#12
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,660
- Joined: 2011-February-12
Posted 2014-October-11, 11:28
whereagles, on 2014-October-11, 10:28, said:
2♠. I'm ok with playing 3♥ if pard happens to have a weak 2 in hearts (fat chance).
The problem with 2s is it invites game in hearts and you may well end up in 4hx:)
#13
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,942
- Joined: 2005-January-28
- Gender:Male
- Location:Cologne, Germany
- Interests:Sleeping, Eating
Posted 2014-October-11, 11:30
gszes, on 2014-October-11, 11:28, said:
The problem with 2s is it invites game in hearts
I don't think it should.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
-- Bertrand Russell
-- Bertrand Russell
#14
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,660
- Joined: 2011-February-12
Posted 2014-October-11, 11:33
If your side is weak you have a generally poor hand for preemption since
p will be shorter in dia than usual. Try to survive those weak hands with
2h (convert 2sx to 3d since you know 2sx is a disaster)
and hope for once p has a strong hand where we can show our diamonds later.
p will be shorter in dia than usual. Try to survive those weak hands with
2h (convert 2sx to 3d since you know 2sx is a disaster)
and hope for once p has a strong hand where we can show our diamonds later.
#15
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,169
- Joined: 2011-November-21
- Gender:Not Telling
- Location:Australia
- Interests:Overbidding
Posted 2014-October-11, 20:53
gszes, on 2014-October-11, 11:28, said:
The problem with 2s is it invites game in hearts and you may well end up in 4hx:)
Lots of people play that it suggests 3H and an invite is gonna go through 2NT. I think this is more reasonable. It does mean that if you'd like to play 4H but only 2S you are kinda screwed, but what can you do.
#16
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,169
- Joined: 2011-November-21
- Gender:Not Telling
- Location:Australia
- Interests:Overbidding
Posted 2014-October-11, 20:53
gszes, on 2014-October-11, 11:28, said:
The problem with 2s is it invites game in hearts and you may well end up in 4hx:)
Lots of people play that it suggests 3H and an invite is gonna go through 2NT. I think this is more reasonable. It does mean that if you'd like to play 4H but only 2S you are kinda screwed, but what can you do.
#17
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,728
- Joined: 2003-March-07
- Gender:Male
- Location:Laos
- Interests:Wagner and Bridge
Posted 2014-October-11, 21:53
wank, on 2014-October-11, 09:36, said:
don't put strong hands in multis
I agree,but this op does so your reply is totally unhelpful. I bid 2H.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#18
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 879
- Joined: 2009-December-20
- Gender:Male
- Location:Podunk, backwater USA
Posted 2014-October-12, 00:55
1.) Does anyone have a good write-up of Multi 2♦, at least a version similar to this? I already have one for weak-only.
2.) Even if partner has the strong hand, I am passing this. And then changing the bid after the game so that it's weak-only and much more pre-emptive/fun!
2.) Even if partner has the strong hand, I am passing this. And then changing the bid after the game so that it's weak-only and much more pre-emptive/fun!
"It's not enough to win the tricks that belong to you. Try also for some that belong to the opponents."
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself."
"One advantage of bad bidding is that you get practice at playing atrocious contracts."
-Alfred Sheinwold
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself."
"One advantage of bad bidding is that you get practice at playing atrocious contracts."
-Alfred Sheinwold
#19
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 14,900
- Joined: 2004-May-11
- Gender:Male
- Location:Portugal
- Interests:Everything!
Posted 2014-October-12, 02:41
wank, on 2014-October-11, 09:36, said:
don't put strong hands in multis
Why not? The point of play 2 DIAMONDS as multi is precisely that opener gets to bid again with a strong hand.
If you're going to play it as weak only, you might as well open 2♥ as multi, which is much more annoying to the opponents
#20
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 14,216
- Joined: 2009-July-13
- Location:England
Posted 2014-October-12, 03:22
whereagles, on 2014-October-12, 02:41, said:
Why not? The point of play 2 DIAMONDS as multi is precisely that opener gets to bid again with a strong hand.
If you're going to play it as weak only, you might as well open 2♥ as multi, which is much more annoying to the opponents
If you're going to play it as weak only, you might as well open 2♥ as multi, which is much more annoying to the opponents
And this is why the 2♥ bid you describe is banned in the UK in most events.
Your weak options have to have an anchor suit, if not your either/or may not contain the suit opened.