[gwnn]

Unless you're accused of murder and the key witness is a mendacious, unreliable, petty drug dealer (ok I would vote not guilty there too)

[mycroft]

Ken, I would say that in Tip-top Division 1A NCAA football, there are about 4 games of note in the schedule. A lot of the first 6 or 7 weeks have more than a few 57-3 scores. And that's somewhat more competitive than (non-Texas) High school.

I think frequently there are districts where there isn't really enough population to have tiered divisions (for instance, my school was in a rural district, and we played effectively all the rest every year). Your option there is to either have a team or not. If you have a team, and you're considerably outclassed, I can imagine 12-0 soccer scores, and 15-0 field hockey, and 52-0 football, and 85-4 basketball, not being uncommon.

This could have been handled better by a lot of people; and the coach is getting it in the neck. Maybe there are others that should, and maybe there aren't.

[Bbradley62]

Oddly, these two schools are right near each other and have similar size enrollment. There must be some basketball tradition (or athletics in general) at the one school. Maybe the other one wins all the science awards.

[kenberg]

Bbradley62, on 2015-January-30, 19:29, said:

Oddly, these two schools are right near each other and have similar size enrollment. There must be some basketball tradition (or athletics in general) at the one school. Maybe the other one wins all the science awards.

I went back to your earlier note about the different tiers. You said "Maybe they need a suggestion (not even necessarily a rule) stipulating that non-league games should be restricted to teams within three or four tiers of each other." and that sounds right. Nothing good can come of having such mis-matched teams on the same court.

I idly wonder, I don't know enough details to more than idly wonder, if something could be learned from comparing these two schools on a variety of fronts. If they draw kids from the same general population, what explains the extreme differences? Is is one of the two schools better at pretty much everything or is, as you suggest as a maybe, one better at athletics, the other at academics? For that matter, is one better at athletics or just better at basketball, perhaps even narrow it down to better at girls basketball? Perhaps there is a story here.


I still find it a mystery just how and why some succeed and others do not. We are born with raw material, we live in a family and in a culture that shapes our expectations and we make choices. I find it to be a complicated mix. And luck plays a role too, but if one school is consistently doing better than another, that's not just luck.

[mike777]

I still find it a mystery just how and why some succeed and others do not. We are born with raw material, we live in a family and in a culture that shapes our expectations and we make choices. I find it to be a complicated mix. And luck plays a role too, but if one school is consistently doing better than another, that's not just luck.
-------------------

Having just read about Yitang Zhang at the Univ. of New Hampshire Ken's comment really hits home.

Ken can explain the problem of "bound gaps" but 2 points really hit home:
1) over 50 is not too old for Math guys to be very creative despite the common wisdom.
2) there is a link with math genius and health issues that is more than random noise.

[gwnn]

kenberg, on 2015-January-31, 21:22, said:

I idly wonder, I don't know enough details to more than idly wonder, if something could be learned from comparing these two schools on a variety of fronts. If they draw kids from the same general population, what explains the extreme differences? Is is one of the two schools better at pretty much everything or is, as you suggest as a maybe, one better at athletics, the other at academics? For that matter, is one better at athletics or just better at basketball, perhaps even narrow it down to better at girls basketball? Perhaps there is a story here.

A commenter on ESPN said that the losing team has much better test scores. I was too lazy to fact-check him. And the winning team is not really that great actually in basketball, but like 200th in the whole state and 9th in the county (see above for fact-checking).

[diana_eva]

gwnn, on 2015-February-01, 02:29, said:

... And the winning team is not really that great actually in basketball, but like 200th in the whole state and 9th in the county (see above for fact-checking).

Rankings can be checked online. Yes, they are *only* 208th at state level, while the other team is 1301st. And they are only #1952 at national level, while the other team is #15343.

Arroyo Valley
Bloomington

BTW I don't really care to nail this guy in particular. I said what my impressions is - he could and should see what's going on before the score goes so high. Explaining what he did *after* they were at 104 is just irrelevant IMO.

I thought it was an interesting situation and I enjoyed reading about how one can try to turn a bad experience into a learning experience. That's the part I found interesting, esp in the context of real teams and real coaches facing such a challenge when there are teens involved, that they presumably want to continue to play and enjoy the game.

I admit it's not completely fair to leave this stuff on the shoulders of the coach, even if part of their mission is to teach kids sportsmanship.

[kenberg]

Starting with Diana's link and then exploring around:

It seems Bloomington's boy's cross-country team had a winning season and their wrestling team has had several good seasons. California publishes academic ratings and it appears that both schools could use some help. I also saw a couple of comments by the Bloomington coach about the Arroyo Valley coach that I thought were ill-advised. My own high school experiences of some sixty years ago were mixed, to say the least, and that seems to be the case here.

[Bbradley62]

kenberg, on 2015-January-31, 21:22, said:

I idly wonder, I don't know enough details to more than idly wonder, if something could be learned from comparing these two schools on a variety of fronts. If they draw kids from the same general population, what explains the extreme differences? Is is one of the two schools better at pretty much everything or is, as you suggest as a maybe, one better at athletics, the other at academics? For that matter, is one better at athletics or just better at basketball, perhaps even narrow it down to better at girls basketball? Perhaps there is a story here.

I don't think at all that "they draw kids from the same general population", just that they're nearby. There are two high schools near me, Half Hollow Hills East and Wyandanch; they are within 6 miles of each other and share a border between the two school districts, but they clearly don't draw from the same population. The two areas are separated by the proverbial "tracks". HHHE wins state championships in tennis and golf and sends many graduates to Ivy League schools; Wyandanch wins championships in football, basketball and track and has among the lowest graduation rates in the state. The median home value in HHH is about 3x that in Wyandanch. You get the idea.

[kenberg]

Something similar with me when I was growing up. I went to an elementary school that straddle the dividing line for high schools. There was a substantial difference. We lived "above Jefferson hill", the high school I went to was below the hill and drew most of its students from there. The girl across the alley from me was not allowed to date any boys from below the hill. Ni such rules applied to me but as my interest in science and mathematics grew I had to find where I fit. Mostly that was with the kids at the other school.

t was about a half hout walk to the school that I went to and about the same to the school that I didn't go to. (A cold walk in Minnesota winters but I bought a car when I was a sophomore so the distance became unimportant.)

A few years ago I went to a reunion (the 53rd I think) of the class of 56, the first I had ever attended. It was a great pleasure. Some had done very well starting with not much. I am fascinated by the question of just how this sorting out works.

I wish all these kids the best. Growing up is tough, and in my view it has gotten tougher.

[billw55]

I found total reported enrollments from the respective schools:

Arroyo: 2603
Bloomington: 2187

So this does not account for the difference. Apparently, California must use some criteria other than enrollment to sort the tiers. Anyway, with similar enrollments, and proximity on the map, scheduling to play each other seems routine.

Perhaps their is a cultural difference between the two schools, whereby basketball is considered a big deal at Arroyo, but not at Bloomington. Or maybe it is a new team. Or ... who knows.

results

Apparently Bloomington is now 0-18, and all reported scores are major routs. However you can see, that almost all their other opponents kept the score down.