[y66]

[kenberg]

The general election campaign will be ugly. Not a little ugly. It will be unbearable..Ted Cruz's father speaks in favor of his son, Donald Trump talks of a National Enquirer article saying that the elder Cruz was photographed with Lee Harvey Oswald.

This is not going to go well.

Perhaps Republicans, as they struggle with whether to support their "presumptive nominee", should start by asking themselves if they support the above comments of Trump. Are they willing to be part of this? There is nowhere to hide, they will have to choose.

[barmar]

I really feel sorry for Republicans this year. They've been caught between a rock and a hard place for the past few months. Now they're stuck with the rock.

[Winstonm]

The Republican Party committed suicide.

[kenberg]

Winstonm, on 2016-May-04, 15:29, said:

The Republican Party committed suicide.

They committed something. I think it could be premature to plan the burial. I never got around to seeing any of the Nightmares on Elm Street, but maybe this is what they were like.

[blackshoe]

billw55, on 2016-May-03, 07:49, said:

This is one reason why a candidate for president should have experience as an elected official in order to be taken seriously.

Hm. How much experience as an elected official did George Washington have, or D.D. Eisenhower?

[kenberg]

And then there is Herbert Hoover.


From the wik:

Quote

Hoover easily won the Republican nomination, despite having no elected-office experience. Hoover is the most recent cabinet secretary to be elected President of the United States, as well as one of only two Presidents (along with William Howard Taft) elected without electoral experience or high military rank.

I was pretty sure Hoover had not held elected office, I didn't know one way or the other about Taft.

I suppose I would not make a no exceptions rule here. But. Generally I am skeptical when the claim is made that a good businessman could come in and fix Washington. Ask Michael Jordan about whether someone who can excel at X can also excel at Y. And X and Y both involved balls. It is not impossible, but I think such claims often don't hold up well when tested.

Trump is a special case, whatever one thinks of business people in politics. I wouldn't go into business with him either. Nor would he with me, to be totally fair here. It is difficult to talk about DT without repeating myself and collapsing in frustration.

[mike777]

blackshoe, on 2016-May-04, 19:58, said:

Hm. How much experience as an elected official did George Washington have, or D.D. Eisenhower?

Eisenhower had great political experience...more than 99.999%


Washington had as much or more national political experience than anyone


Hoover had more national political experience than roughly 99.99%
---------


Trump has more political experience than the vast majority of us...not sure he has had much or any national political leadership experience which is what the job is all about. Clearly he does have leadership experience....the issue has always been how will that translate and how much do voters care?
-------


The vast majority of posters seem to feel that this will be landslide of epic history for Clinton.

[Zelandakh]

mike777, on 2016-May-04, 22:11, said:

The vast majority of posters seem to feel that this will be landslide of epic history for Clinton.

Which posters have written this? Certainly not me!

[Al_U_Card]

Seems likely that DT has had experience "influencing" politicians at the local and state levels, at least. Thus, he will be aware of the ins and outs of that aspect of politics.
As for the election campaign, Hil won't be able to attack him on his political stances while she is an open book, so to speak. If they go into past history, DT will have lots of ammunition to use against Hil.
All that Hil can hope for is a reasoned, practical exposition of policy stances.
I am sure that this will appeal to the average voter.....riiiiiiight....

[kenberg]

mike777, on 2016-May-04, 22:11, said:

The vast majority of posters seem to feel that this will be landslide of epic history for Clinton.

Hardly.

I think it is fair to say that if the next president were to be determined by a vote of frequent WC posters the winner would be Sanders if the European vote were counted, and either Sanders or Clinton, I am not sure which, if we counted only the vote of American WC posters. Possibly we could start a movement to give undocumented WC posters the right to vote in American elections. I might support that, I have had worse ideas.

What I would like to see is a major effort by the Democratic Party to include everyday working people who once were the backbone of the party but were long ago conceded to the Republican Party. There must be a lot of people out there who have been voting R but who are having trouble seeing DT as the answer to their dreams. Simply put, the man is a huckster. Some people give their money, or in this case their votes, to a huckster. Some don't.

In the 1930s there were Americans who thought Hitler had the right approach in Germany and there were Americans who thought Stalin had the right approach in Russia. And Mussolini made the trains run on time which, as I understand it, he actually didn't. It was a time of turmoil. The Democratic Party at the time was successful in convincing Americans that we should keep the government we have but we should also make it do better for those who work for a living. This worked as a electoral strategy, and it seems to have worked pretty well for the country. I am hoping that we can take that approach again. Who knows, maybe I could go back to my old neighborhood and not feel like a political stranger in a strange land. So maybe this could be epic history. One can dream.

[hrothgar]

blackshoe, on 2016-May-04, 19:58, said:

Hm. How much experience as an elected official did George Washington have, or D.D. Eisenhower?

I think that the issue of holding political office is a distraction from the real issues.

Donald Trump is unacceptable because all of his wealth was made stealing money from those who entrusted him with their savings.
He is unacceptable because he has made a deliberate choice to campaign as a fascist and a demagogue.
He is unacceptable because he is astoundingly ignorant and has nothing to offer other than hatred of the other.

(FWIW, I am expecting a decisive Clinton victory)

[kenberg]

Richard's views of the unacceptability of Trump match mine, and I am sure it matches the views of many. I still worry

From a Charles Lane column to day:

Quote

In manufacturing-heavy Indiana, whose 5 percent unemployment rate, like that of the nation, is less than half what it was in December 2009, Trump won 60 percent of those making more than $100,000 per year and beat Cruz handily among college grads.

Ok, this can be explained for those hoping for an explanation. These are Republican voters. This is a primary. He was running against Cruz. Or, particularly misguided, these are Indiana voters. Let's hope the Clinton campaign does not decide to write off Indiana. Or the usual explanation. These people are stupid.

If I am sure of anything, I am sure that this campaign will be the ugliest and most personal campaign of my lifetime. I was around for the LBJ ad showing a little girl picking daisies and then being blown away by a nuclear attack. I was around when McCarthy was calling Stevenson a communist. And of course there was Willie Horton. This will be worse. Be prepared.

[barmar]

On last night's Nightly Show, Franchesca Ramsey suggested that Hillary should play dumb and ask Donald to "mansplain" his plans to deport all the Latinos and Muslims, solve fiscal problems, etc.

[onoway]

barmar, on 2016-May-05, 09:52, said:

On last night's Nightly Show, Franchesca Ramsey suggested that Hillary should play dumb and ask Donald to "mansplain" his plans to deport all the Latinos and Muslims, solve fiscal problems, etc.

I REALLY hope that Clinton refrains from doing anything of the sort, there are millions of people who wouldn't realize that she was being sarcastic. There are already far too many men who secretly believe that "a woman's place is in the stove", as Lenny Bruce (I think) used to say, who would grab onto any hint of playing dumb as a sign of actually BEING dumb and probably most of them are voters.

Just watched a video which purported to explain some of Trump's success resting on one word in his slogan. "again" That holds a whole lot of implications..that America was once great, that it isn't now and that it can be "again". On some unconscious level that may resonate with a lot of people who then don't go on to the further step of asking if Trump is the one who is going to make it so. They may have a sort of instinctual reaction that he is acknowledging that what has been going down for a while isn't working very well for a whole lot of people, he hasn't been part of it, so he must be on their side in terms of intending to fix things. A truly heroic leap of faith but people react out of emotion, not logic.

Perhaps unfortunately for her, Clinton is seen as very much a part of the establishment so that is going to be a difficult thing for her overcome if she allows Trump to determine the discussion. Probably Sander's strongest pull is his willingness to act on what the voters want when what they want is opposed by big business, something that is highly unlikely to get anywhere near crossing Trump's mind and is certainly up for question with Clinton. So if it ends up being Clinton and Trump it will be a fine example of how Clinton copes with difficult people..it's already pretty clear how Trump does, although how that would translate into presidential action is ...scary to contemplate.

[PassedOut]

Right-wing columnist Jennifer Rubin has some suggestions for republicans: Stop Trump, then remake conservative politics

Quote

Along with all of this, conservatives have to end their intellectual isolation and self-delusions. They need to stop pretending that climate change is not occurring (the extent and the proposed solutions can be rationally discussed) or imagining that there is a market for pre-New-Deal-size government. Conservatives must end their infatuation with phony news, crank conspiracy theories, demonization of well-meaning leaders and mean rhetoric. It’s time to grow up, turn off Sean Hannity, get off toxic social media and start learning about the world as it is. (Read a book authored by someone without a talk show, spend time with non-Republicans, take an online course in economics.) Confirmation bias has become pathological.

This is all daunting and complicated. Many people have a financial interest in keeping conservatives angry and invested in bad causes. Ignore them. The scorecards are meaningless, the CPAC straw poll is nonsense and the talk radio audiences are entirely unrepresentative of the country or even the party as a whole.

The undertaking begins with stopping Trump. Beyond that, people of good will and common sense can work either within the old Republican Party or in a new (Hamiltonian? Reform? Opportunity?) Party. Unless conservatives get their act together, we will become a one-party, ever left-drifting, country, at least at the national level.

I've been in business all my life. I would always prefer to see the republicans put up a candidate who won't be an impossible choice for a reasonable voter, but that won't be the case this election either. IMO Rubin is on the right track, but I don't expect the republicans to change, in the near term anyway. Paul Ryan has pleasant personality, for example, but his ideas about economics are just nuts.

[Phil]

Hrothgar is right.

Hill will get 95% of the Democratic party.

She will also get a substantial portion of Republican voters that cannot stand the thought of this buffoon as our CIC.

I'd predict delegates will go 60 40 although the popular vote will be more like 52 48.

[y66]

From today's evening briefing at the NYT

Quote

“This is not entertainment. This is not a reality show. This is a contest for the presidency of the United States.” With that, President Obama urged journalists at a White House news conference to scrutinize Donald Trump’s record and ideas as he pursues the presidency. One Trump idea unnerved economists: cutting the national debt by giving creditors less than full payment.

Hillary Clinton has begun reaching out to Republicans alienated by Mr. Trump, and her campaign expects to assemble a “Republicans for Hillary” group. “Let’s get off the red or the blue team,” she said this week. “Let’s get on the American team.” There was no sign of tensions easing between Mr. Trump and the House speaker, Paul Ryan.

[mike777]

I not sure what the problem is:

If Clinton wins big she wins big
if dEMS WIN THE house and senate ...they win control and blame for the government


It seems for the vast majority of the forums that is a good thing.


All I mean all of this seems to be a historic victory for the vast members of the forum

[Fluffy]

What's your favourite strain? No Trump!