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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#20281 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2022-August-15, 12:11

View Postkenberg, on 2022-August-15, 11:35, said:

The distrust here is not like the distrust of a weatherman, or even like my distrust of a particular PA or my general reluctance to give full trust to anything a doctor tells me. This distrust is closer in kind to what a woman out on a date might feel if she spots the guy slipping something into her drink.

The best example I can give is that it is like the distrust of Christians who say that the Earth is flat because that is what the Bible says, regardless of how much evidence to the contrary there is. In this case, there is massive election fraud because Donald Trump says so. I can somewhat understand the faith that some put in the Bible even when it is obviously misguided. That people put a similar faith in Donald Trump is something I find completely unfathomable.
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#20282 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2022-August-15, 13:29

View PostGilithin, on 2022-August-15, 12:11, said:

The best example I can give is that it is like the distrust of Christians who say that the Earth is flat because that is what the Bible says, regardless of how much evidence to the contrary there is. In this case, there is massive election fraud because Donald Trump says so. I can somewhat understand the faith that some put in the Bible even when it is obviously misguided. That people put a similar faith in Donald Trump is something I find completely unfathomable.


I decided to avoid religious comparisons for my post, but there is something to what you say. I have always had friends who over a fair spectrum of religious beliefs. Faith, hope and charity are fine with me, and I never claim that my approach to right and wrong can be fully justified by logical argument. But yes, the Earth is round. It just is. And you should not drink the Kool-Aid no matter what your leader says. And so on.

Biden won. He just did. I can agree with some conservative views, I can believe in many things. But the Earth is round and Biden won the election. And Trump is a serious menace/ A menace to all of us.
Ken
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#20283 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-August-15, 15:46

The problem with Trump supporters is not that they don't believe experts.
They know what an expert is, they go to the doctor when they're sick and take their car to the mechanic when it doesn't work just like everyone else.
Trump supporters have a different problem.

Imagine you live in a country where every day from the moment you're born you are told that there is a divine being who decides everything and so long as you believe in his (always a he) existence you will succeed in life, become insanely wealthy and never have to worry about anything.

After spending a lifetime like this you wake up one day and there's a problem you can't quite get your head around.
What to do?

Well the answer of course is that George Soros pinged you with a space laser.

When a person with a formal thought disorder tells you that they are required to hang around the headquarters of the FBI with a gun or that Salman Rushdie is Satan, they aren't exercising any kind of 'right'.

They've reached a point in their existence where the stuff they were told in school and the stuff they see in front of them cannot both be true.
When this happens they make posts about M.B. Mathews in the water cooler of a Bridge Forum.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek.
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#20284 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-August-15, 16:44

View Postpilowsky, on 2022-August-15, 15:46, said:

The problem with Trump supporters is not that they don't believe experts.
They know what an expert is, they go to the doctor when they're sick and take their car to the mechanic when it doesn't work just like everyone else.
Trump supporters have a different problem.

Imagine you live in a country where every day from the moment you're born you are told that there is a divine being who decides everything and so long as you believe in his (always a he) existence you will succeed in life, become insanely wealthy and never have to worry about anything.

After spending a lifetime like this you wake up one day and there's a problem you can't quite get your head around.
What to do?

Well the answer of course is that George Soros pinged you with a space laser.

When a person with a formal thought disorder tells you that they are required to hang around the headquarters of the FBI with a gun or that Salman Rushdie is Satan, they aren't exercising any kind of 'right'.

They've reached a point in their existence where the stuff they were told in school and the stuff they see in front of them cannot both be true.
When this happens they make posts about M.B. Mathews in the water cooler of a Bridge Forum.


Along these lines, I watched half-heartedly something or the other on the tube yesterday and wasn't paying a lot of attention but it was an interview with a bunch of southerners who support Trump. Almost all stated the election was stolen. But the overriding takeaway (when I did pay attention) was how incredibly racist they were and how blind they were to their own racism. The final lady interviewed said it all. She said southerners didn't care what color you were but didn't understand why everyone couldn't just get along together and stop burning down the cities like those BLM.

They are totally blind to their complete lack of empathy. I have tried to come up with a term to describe this type of unrecognized racism - unwoke seems to fit. I've also toyed with Omert, a takeoff on omerta, the gangster code of silence,as with Omer they don't tell themselves anything they don't want to hear. Kind of an internal code of silence. They only see the world through white privilege eyes. If you don't fit into that, you are wrong.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20285 User is offline   Chas_P 

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Posted 2022-August-15, 18:46

View Posthrothgar, on 2022-August-14, 08:32, said:

Perhaps the moderators take context into account.

I have a long history of providing valuable content to the forums.
You're a self admitted troll and a racist.

I wonder why folks don't have that much sympathy for you...

I'm not looking for sympathy. I come here principally for amusement. I do enjoy Kenberg's musings; he's the only one here whom I deem to have more common sense than an eggplant. The rest of you guys seem to be here just for mutual back-slapping and a big anti-Trump circle jerk. It's fun to watch. I hope you don't mind.

#20286 User is offline   Gerardo 

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Posted 2022-August-15, 20:56

View PostChas_P, on 2022-August-15, 18:46, said:

I'm not looking for sympathy. I come here principally for amusement. I do enjoy Kenberg's musings; he's the only one here whom I deem to have more common sense than an eggplant. The rest of you guys seem to be here just for mutual back-slapping and a big anti-Trump circle jerk. It's fun to watch. I hope you don't mind.


So, in your own worldview, you don't have more common sense than an eggplant.
Small agreements.

#20287 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-August-15, 20:58

I wonder if he knows what eggplant is slang for?
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek.
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#20288 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-August-15, 21:24

I spent most of my adult life in occupations that required me to be agreeable, to tolerate intolerable people.
I don't have to tolerate those kinds of people now, so I don't and won't.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20289 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2022-August-16, 05:34

David Leonhardt said:

Good morning. Congress is known for being dysfunctional. Why hasn’t it been over the past two years?

https://messaging-cu...3e-9b2c05ebd1c9

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#20290 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2022-August-16, 09:07

I hope that the Leonhardt article is widely read and considered. It is optimistic, maybe overly so, but it celebrates success that comes from realism and negotiation. That's good.
Ken
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#20291 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-August-16, 11:56

Arizona Republican gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake described Trump's charisma as BDE (Big Dick Energy), what we want in our leaders.
So, once again we are back to arguing about whose god has the biggest dick. Amazing.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20292 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2022-August-16, 12:04

View PostWinstonm, on 2022-August-16, 11:56, said:

Arizona Republican gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake described Trump's charisma as BDE (Big Dick Energy), what we want in our leaders.
So, once again we are back to arguing about whose god has the biggest dick. Amazing.


Is she suggesting he HAS or he IS the biggest dick in the US
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#20293 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-August-16, 12:35

An explanation of Trumpism: https://www.latimes....icans-democracy

Quote

One of the paradoxes of charismatic leadership is that the leader’s illegitimacy — in legal, rational or traditional terms — can have the effect of strengthening their hold on their followers. This dynamic has been at the heart of Trump’s distortion of the right. If the man cannot measure up to the traditional, moral, rational or legal yardsticks that conservatives once ascribed to leadership, then it is the yardstick’s fault for not measuring up to the man.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20294 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2022-August-16, 13:09

View PostWinstonm, on 2022-August-16, 12:35, said:

An explanation of Trumpism: https://www.latimes....icans-democracy




Just when we think the party cannot get any crazier we see BDE enter the room. I liked Marlon Brando in The Wild One and even more so in On the Waterfront, but I was an adolescent and these were movies. We are supposed to grow up and we are supposed to develop some judgment.

In the movies a woman often goes for a guy at least in part because of his outlaw character, or his BDE if we must. And in the movies the guy often then grows into responsibility in large part because of the love of a fine (and beautiful) woman. And again, that's in the movies. In real life Trump is in bed with Stormy whatever while his wife is giving birth. If that's BDE I can be happy I do not have it, as can Becky.

I really hope the election does not come down to BDE. The story so far has been embarrassing enough.
Ken
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#20295 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2022-August-16, 13:59

This post will be a total throwaway but there is something I have always wondered about. I saw the movie Kiss Me Kate in 1953 and Bianca (Ann Miller) sings Any Tom, Dick or Harry, about how she wants any Tom, Dick or Harry, any Tom, Harry or Dick and then goes into a much-repeated line about how she really needs a Dick. The Broadway version was in 1948 and I have always wondered if this was the origin of the slang term. And I have also wondered how this got past the movie censors. For comparison, the song I Hate Men sung by Kate the Cursed (Kathryn Grayson) had a line in the Broadway version "Of course, I'm awfully glad that Mother had to marry Father" which had to be changed in the movie to "Of course, I'm awfully glad that Mother deigned to marry Father".

Maybe I should ask Kari Lake about this.
Ken
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#20296 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2022-August-16, 19:18

Barack Obama said:

This is a BFD.

Joe Biden said:

The Inflation Reduction Act is now law.

Giving Medicare the power to negotiate lower prescription drug prices. Ensuring wealthy corporations pay their fair share in taxes.

And taking the biggest step forward on climate in our history.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#20297 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2022-August-16, 20:57

How does giving MEdicare greater resources/power to negotiate cheap drugs with big-pharma play into possible unnecessary demand for said meds
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#20298 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-August-17, 06:24

Noam Chomsky is too busy to contribute to this discussion directly but here's what he had to say on the topic of America to the 'intentists' art movement.
Spoiler alert - he doesn't like Ted Cruz.


Noam Chomsky said:

…you have a society that is actually collapsing U.S society is literally collapsing you see it in all over things like mass shootings you know people are afraid to go to send their kids to school you can't camp in this National Park you can't go to a shopping mall maybe somebody will start shooting in fact it's uh kind of interesting that the ultra-right Supreme Court basically endorsed this the the decision when they rescinded the 1930 New York law on carrying weapons in public you look at justices Thomas's deciding a decision he he didn't say these words but basically what he was saying is our society is so monstrous that people have to have guns because who knows what's going to happen if you cross the street it's just people have to be able to defend themselves what kind of society is that what kind of society is it when Ted Cruz says the answer to school shootings is more security barricade the doors let the kids go to school in a fortress where the teacher has a gun and they learn how to hide in case there's a mass shooting that's the way we want to raise our children thank you Ted Cruz thank you justice Thomas we want to live in a madhouse which is the way they're describing the society and it's becoming that way in large part because of their actions so uh I mean everything is dysfunctional there was just a study in the proceedings of the National Academy of excess Covid deaths due to the dysfunction of the medical system not just the deaths but those that can be attributed to the fact that the health system doesn't work in 2020 it was over two hundred thousand.

We're killing hundreds of thousands of people this is only one example of course just by having a profit-oriented business run health system which is an international scandal I mean if or it's well known that our infrastructure is collapsing bridges are falling apart you know nothing's working Subways you can't take so what do we do well Congress finally agreed to pass a some kind of infrastructure bill but it had to be framed as a China competitive Act we can rebuild their Bridges because China is getting ahead of us not because we need Bridges I mean it's pathological.


You can hear the whole interview from a few days ago here.

non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek.
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#20299 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2022-August-17, 07:05

View Postthepossum, on 2022-August-16, 20:57, said:

How does giving MEdicare greater resources/power to negotiate cheap drugs with big-pharma play into possible unnecessary demand for said meds


If we actually cared about this, we'd start by cracking down on advertising rather than affordability.
Alderaan delenda est
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#20300 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2022-August-17, 08:12

View Postpilowsky, on 2022-August-17, 06:24, said:

Noam Chomsky is too busy to contribute to this discussion directly but here's what he had to say on the topic of America to the 'intentists' art movement.
Spoiler alert - he doesn't like Ted Cruz.




You can hear the whole interview from a few days ago here.



Whew. I listened to the first ten minutes, meaning I heard his answer to the first question. Linguistically speaking, "heard" means I heard every word. I am at a total loss as to what he actually said, as far as meaning is concerned. I might try for more later, but can't even say what I did not understand. Or, rather, I did not understand any of it. I googled intentism and found this link. https://www.deviantart.com/intentism The pictures are clear enough.

I am always up for something new, at least in theory, but I really had no idea what Chomsky was saying. If the first ten minutes had anything to do with the USA I missed it. Ancient Greece, India, China, Europe, and I guess USA got mentioned, but I could not see how any phrase was connected to any later phrase.

I am not rejecting anything here, I simply don't get it.
Ken
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