[Winstonm]

Nothing about this Trump/Covid news is making sense. First, we hear he was positive just last Thursday - and now they talk about him being released from the hospital Monday. Why release him when he would still be able to spread the disease?

Then, Sunday there is a picture of Trump in mask riding in the backseat of an SUV waving at his supporters - how is the driver of that SUV being kept safe? Again doesn't make sense.

However, I notice that sense the news of the diagnosis was released no one has said anything about Trump's NYT tax story, and Trump is a master at changing the narrative of the media. Not saying this is another scam, but it is odd enough to make you ponder.

PS: I saw this after I posted:

Quote

Dr. James P. Phillips, MD @DrPhillipsMDEvery single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential “drive-by” just now has to be quarantined for 14 days. They might get sick. They may die. For political theater. Commanded by Trump to put their lives at risk for theater. This is insanity.4:31 PM · Oct 4, 2020 from Arlington, VA

Also this:

Quote

“For someone sick enough to have required remdesivir and dexamethasone, I can’t think of a situation in which a patient would be okay to leave on day three, even with the White House’s medical capacity,” Wachter said.

“Absolutely not,” William Schaffner, a professor of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University’s medical school, said of the idea of sending Trump back to the White House on Monday.

“I will bet dollars to doughnuts it’s the president and his political aides who are talking about discharge, not his doctors,” Schaffner added.

[Zelandakh]

hrothgar, on 2020-October-03, 06:37, said:

There are no limits on a President's ability to pardon Federal crimes.

This is simply untrue Richard. While the clause itself does not provide restrictions, it is subject to limits from other parts of the Constitution. The primary argument here runs that a self-pardon is contrary to executive power being vested in the President combined with the requirement that the Laws be faithfully executed. There is also a secondary argument that a self-pardon is the equivalent of a self-bribe and is therefore ruled out under Article II, Section 4. Thus the current OLC ruling is that a self-pardon is not allowed, although a 6-3 conservative court may well overturn that ruling of course.

[Trinidad]

Winstonm, on 2020-October-04, 18:28, said:

Then, Sunday there is a picture of Trump in mask riding in the backseat of an SUV waving at his supporters - how is the driver of that SUV being kept safe? Again doesn't make sense.

I think Trump just did what he does best: Taking people for a ride.

Rik

[johnu]

Zelandakh, on 2020-October-04, 19:17, said:

This is simply untrue Richard. While the clause itself does not provide restrictions, it is subject to limits from other parts of the Constitution. The primary argument here runs that a self-pardon is contrary to executive power being vested in the President combined with the requirement that the Laws be faithfully executed. There is also a secondary argument that a self-pardon is the equivalent of a self-bribe and is therefore ruled out under Article II, Section 4. Thus the current OLC ruling is that a self-pardon is not allowed, although a 6-3 conservative court may well overturn that ruling of course.

Who is in charge of the Department of Justice? Oh, that would be the Manchurian President's government paid personal shyster Barr. When it comes time to pardons, the Grifter in Chief will tell his personal shyster lawyer to issue a new memorandum and that would be that. And who needs a 6-3 court? a 5-4 court has shown that it will usually side with Individual 1.

[Winstonm]

A doctor affiliated with Walter Reed hospital summed up this presidency when he talked about Trump's car ride while ill with Covid:

Quote

“Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential ‘drive-by’ just now has to be quarantined for 14 days,” tweeted James P. Phillips, who is also a professor at George Washington University. “They might get sick. They may die. For political theater. Commanded by Trump to put their lives at risk for theater. This is insanity.”

"This is insanity" - a perfect summation of the entire Trump presidency.

[kenberg]

Winstonm, on 2020-October-05, 06:19, said:

A doctor affiliated with Walter Reed hospital summed up this presidency when he talked about Trump's car ride while ill with Covid:




"This is insanity" - a perfect summation of the entire Trump presidency.

A reckless teenager has more regard for the life and well-being of others than Trump has. At least I did, and I was a full-fledged teenager. If any of his supporters are still reading this thread, I ask that they think about that. And one further point: A president, any president, has a responsibility to the nation, and that includes taking care of his own health. Bush I did some sky-diving, but he did it after completing his term.

One can argue that DT is out of touch with reality, or doesn't care about reality, etc. It doesn't matter what the explanation is. Someone this careless about life needs to be somewhere else. It's just crazy that this even has to be said.

[y66]

David Leonhardt at NYT said:

Amy Coney Barrett's superspreader event in the White House Rose Garden on Sept. 26.Alex Brandon/Associated Press

Millions of Americans have gone months without seeing some of their closest relatives or their colleagues. They have canceled weddings and graduations. They have said goodbye to dying loved ones by phone.

But when many of the nation’s political leaders gathered at the White House nine days ago to celebrate the Supreme Court nomination of Amy Coney Barrett, they decided the pandemic rules that applied to everybody else didn’t apply to them.

Some of them assumed, wrongly, that because they had received a fast-response virus test when arriving at the White House, they could not be infectious. Others simply chose not to think about the virus, it seems. Instead, dozens of them sat, unmasked, within inches of one another. They shook hands, hugged and kissed. After starting outdoors, the event moved indoors, where the participants continued to celebrate like it was 2019.

There is now reason to believe that the gathering was a superspreader event for the coronavirus. The president and the first lady are sick, as are two senators who attended, a former governor, the president of the University of Notre Dame and multiple White House staff members, journalists and others.

And anyone infected at the White House that day may have later infected others.

Andrew Joseph of the health publication Stat wrote this weekend that the event at the White House “offers a case study in what experts say has been the administration’s recklessness.” The Times has compiled photos from the event, with labels identifying many of the attendees.

Rebecca Ruiz of Mashable tweeted, in response to a photo of the indoor reception for Barrett: “I haven’t hugged my parents since March 8 and they haven’t hugged their grandchildren since then either. 6yo desperately wanted to hold hands w/ her grandpa on her birthday and I said no, we can’t take that risk.”

David French of the conservative website The Dispatch, wrote, “What a breathtaking contrast to the way so many millions of Americans have lived their lives.”

Perhaps the most poignant response came from, the Notre Dame president, the Rev. John Jenkins. This spring, Jenkins had made the case that colleges had a moral obligation to reopen, for the sake of the “body, mind and spirit” of their students. But Notre Dame would do so carefully, he promised. When some students violated campus rules by holding parties — without masks or social distancing — and a virus outbreak followed, Jenkins canceled in-person classes for two weeks as a punishment and a precaution.

Early last week, even before it was clear that the White House helped spread the virus, Jenkins wrote a letter to the Notre Dame community expressing regret for his behavior there. “I failed to lead by example, at a time when I’ve asked everyone else in the Notre Dame community to do so,” he wrote. “I especially regret my mistake in light of the sacrifices made on a daily basis by many.”

[y66]

Quote

A West Wing meltdown. Staffers say they went days with no internal communication from Meadows about protocols and procedures — including whether they should show up to work — as COVID tore through the West Wing.

https://www.axios.co..._source=twitter

Business as usual in Trumpworld.

[y66]

Code blue for the Trump campaign.

Quote

The Trump campaign is hoping the nation will rally around the ailing president as he battles the coronavirus. But the first polls conducted since the president’s announcement of his diagnosis early Friday did not seem to show a sympathy bounce.

https://www.nytimes....sympathy-bounce

[johnu]

Doctor Warns Trump’s Coronavirus Treatment Can Cause Psychosis, Mania

Quote

A doctor told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer on Sunday that the medication cocktail currently being given to President Donald Trump to treat coronavirus could have some serious side effects, including psychosis, mania and delirium.

This seems like scientifically grounded observations, but honestly, how would you tell if the Manchurian President is more psychotic, manic, or delirious than normal???

[y66]

When Chuck Norris tested positive, COVID went to the hospital to recuperate while he stayed home.

For the rest of us "The key to getting out of the hospital early is to live in a giant mansion run by the federal government that includes a 24/7 urgent care facility and full-time medical personnel" per Matt Yglesias.

[thepossum]

You know what is insanity. The international media storm over someone going to hospital for a few days

EDIT What is also highly amusing is that the conspiracy theory boot now seems to be on the other foot

[y66]

Quote

“Don’t be afraid of Covid,” President Trump tweeted, on the same day that the White House outbreak spread further and another several hundred Americans died from virus complications.

The president has survived Covid-19 so far, with help from more aggressive medical care than virtually any other American would have received. But about 210,000 of his fellow citizens have not survived, according to the official death count. The real toll, based on the number of excess deaths this year, is probably closer to 275,000.

Given Trump’s campaign to make the virus seem like a minor inconvenience, I think it’s worth taking a minute this morning to take stock of the virus:

Only cancer and heart disease will kill more Americans this year than Covid. Already, the virus has killed more than twice as many Americans as either strokes or Alzheimer’s disease, about four times as many as diabetes and more than eight times as many as either gun violence or vehicle accidents.

Most other rich countries have been much more successful in fighting the virus than the U.S. A chart is the simplest way to see this:


By The New York Times | Sources: Johns Hopkins University, World Bank

Outbreaks are again increasing in the U.S. The number of new cases per day has risen more than 25 percent since mid-September. “Covid-19 is spreading again across most of the U.S., hammering rural America and smaller cities and raising anxiety in New York,” Bloomberg News reported yesterday. The outbreak connected to the White House is responsible for about 30 known cases so far — more than the average daily number of new cases recently in all of Australia.

The virus is genuinely terrifying for thousands of people. In addition to the more than 200,000 deaths — and all of the Americans mourning those deaths — many other people have spent weeks battling fatigue, shortness of breath, cardiac problems and more.

Dr. Sean Conley, the White House physician, said it would be another week until doctors could feel confident that Trump had beaten the virus. A preliminary plan calls for confining him to the White House residence, where he can receive 24-hour medical care, and keeping him away from the West Wing.

The White House has decided not to trace the contacts of guests and staff members at the Sept. 26 Rose Garden celebration for Judge Amy Coney Barrett. Health officials suspect that event may have spread the virus to Trump and others.

The Trump administration is blocking proposed stricter guidelines for the emergency approval of a coronavirus vaccine. The White House chief of staff objected to provisions that would push approval past Election Day.

[y66]

Nate Cohn at NYT said:

Daily polling diary: No Democratic presidential candidate has won Arizona since 1996. But a new Times poll shows Biden with an eight-point lead there and the Democratic Senate nominee with an 11-point lead. It’s evidence that Republicans are losing their grip on the state, Nate Cohn writes.

https://www.nytimes....-election-biden

[y66]

Jonathan Bernstein at Bloomberg said:

We can say one thing for sure now: If Donald Trump wins the 2020 presidential election, it will be either the biggest October comeback or the biggest polling error in the polling era.

With four weeks to go, it’s hard to find good news for the president. Former Vice President Joe Biden leads by a bit more than 8 percentage points in national polls. Trump still has a bit of an Electoral College advantage, meaning that if each state moved equally in his direction, he could win the election even if he loses the popular vote. But as of now, the advantage doesn’t appear to have grown from 2016, and he’s too far behind for it to save him. Polls have him down 6.2 percentage points in Pennsylvania, 7.0 in Michigan and 6.7 in Wisconsin. Those are the three states that gave him the presidency in 2016. Could the polling be wrong? Sure. Is it likely? Not particularly. There are far more surveys in Michigan and Wisconsin this time around, and pollsters think that they’ve learned their lessons from last time.

Also remember: National surveys in 2016 were only off by a small amount, and polling in many states was just fine, as it was for the 2018 elections. So it matters that Trump also seems to be lagging in states such as Florida, Arizona, North Carolina, and Ohio, and perhaps even Iowa and Georgia. That’s why forecasting models have Biden as a solid favorite. He has a bit better than a 4 in 5 chance according to FiveThirtyEight, and a nine in 10 chance according to the Economist — in both cases, the strongest position he’s been in so far.

That certainly doesn’t mean it’s impossible for Trump to win. Biden has gained some after the first debate (and all the other events of last week); that could prove to be a bubble that will deflate, perhaps if Trump does better next time. Or Trump might find some way to close the gap a bit more at the end of the campaign, as he did in 2016, which could get Biden’s lead down enough to allow the president — if he overperforms his polls in just the right places — to pull ahead.

There are a bunch of problems with that scenario. The polls have been quite stable this cycle, much more so than in 2016, which makes any big late shifts less likely. Similarly, fewer people are telling pollsters that they’re undecided. It’s also a problem for Trump that, unlike Hillary Clinton in 2016, Biden is relatively popular, making it less likely that those now supporting him are uneasy with their choice. As for some external event changing things? Trump seems to think that announcing approval for a vaccine would do it. But polling shows that few people other than his strongest supporters trust him on the pandemic.

As has been the case throughout Trump’s presidency, it’s just very difficult to see anything he does as even plausibly appealing to swing voters. Removing his mask semi-dramatically after returning to the White House on Monday and then arguing that people shouldn’t let the pandemic dominate their lives? That’s just more of the same from him, and it’s hard to believe that if it hasn’t worked for seven months it will suddenly work in the next few weeks.

One more thing: No matter what the Republican spin says, there’s no reason to think there are hidden Trump voters out there. It’s just as likely that Biden will do better than the polls suggest. Of course, as long as Biden is in the lead, we’re going to pay more attention to the (still very real!) possibility that polling error could make it a closer race than it looks. But don’t forget that all the maybes and could-bes and last-minute surges could just as easily go in the other direction.

[kenberg]

We are told that Trump might not be entirely out of the woods. It doesn't really matter what that means since nobody believes these guys anyway. However, observation suggests Trump is more likely than not to continue living. Realism suggests going forward on that assumption.

I recently spoke with a Minnesota friend who, like me, can't stand DT, and also like me could not stand to watch the debate all the way through, and, also like me, did not think Biden presented himself very well. Growing up with all that snow and ice teaches you about reality.

So I am hoping that after the coming debates we might be able to say something more than "Well, at least he isn't trump". Or, for that matter, "At least he isn't Bernie".

Here is a rather long WaPo article about the recent relief package, its strengths and weaknesses. Now I am less critical, since in an emergency it is not always possible to get everything right. But still there are points to be addressed. Becky and I received some money from it. A little after that, we bought a new computer for Becky and I got a new lawn mower. But but but. Becky's computer had been acting up, Dell said they thought the hard drive was about to die. I had had the old mower repaired last year and it was acting bad again, I decided it was time for a new one. So replacing them had nothing to do with getting money from the government. If someone sends me money, I am inclined to accept it. But it affected my spending not at all and affected my well being not at all. So maybe there is something to address.

this relates to many things. I will mention again the problem with student loans. I realize it is a crisis. ok, it is a crisis. But if we find that we now need to spend a trillion r so to get us out of this crisis, and that's a trillion or so that no one mentioned when the program was put in place, it seems fair to acknowledge that someone screwed the pooch. Yes, we have to address the problem, but we start my acknowledging error.

Right now we Biden voters are driven at least in part by the horror of Trump, and at least some Trump voters are driven at least in part by extreme distrust of the Dems. I hope we can do better. I know I am sometimes seen as unrealistic, I certainly consider this possible, but I am ot yet ready to say that nobody will listen to anything. I had hoped that at the first debate Biden would knock it out of the park, creating applause and enthusiasm. That did not really happen. Well, after the seventh inning stretch, it's time get up to the plate. Go Joe Go.

Added: I see Susan Page is the moderator for tomorrow night. Good! And I can say "Good" rather than "At least she will be better than Chris Wallace". That's what we want, people to say "Good" about Biden, rather than "Better than Trump".

[y66]

The title and subtitle of the WaPo article kb linked are

Quote

‘Doomed to fail’: Why a $4 trillion bailout couldn’t revive the American economy

An avalanche of U.S. grants and loans helped the wealthy and companies that laid off workers. Individuals received about one-fifth of the aid.

Clearly the solution is for individuals to become corporations.

[shyams]

y66, on 2020-October-06, 08:04, said:

Clearly the solution is for individuals to become corporations.

Then, it will be apt to say "People are corporations too"

[y66]

Abundance of caution is a useful principle when the president's health is at risk but it's highly questionable in other contexts.

[kenberg]

y66, on 2020-October-06, 09:27, said:

Abundance of caution is a useful principle when the president's health is at risk but it's highly questionable in other contexts.

Yes, the pres has assured us that covid is nothing to be afraid of, he will be having his mass gatherings, etc etc etc. A new standard: I wish to have a president who is not a total embarrassment to the country. Someone that I could disagree with without feeling that it is crazy to have to even think about it.