[straube]

I've never played Mexican 2D and don't like getting so high both for safety reasons and preempting our auction. I don't like balanced 2N openings either but both Mexican and 2N openings can get the message to partner before an auction gets competitive. When I read this...

Kungsgeten said:

Having 2♦ or 2♣ as 18--19 NT saves a lot of bidding space for finding the best contract, compared to a 19--21 2NT.

I thought you might like the opening. As far as aggressiveness (10-14 you mean?) you could adjust to taste. Could be 12-17 if you like. I was primarily trying to
address your balanced ranges...which are difficult because you want your 1D to be natural and unbalanced. I think the club has to start at 15 if 1N is 12-14 if it's to handle
the balanced ranges.

Well, that was probably my best shot at combining openings that you like with a strong club approach. My other thought was...

1C-16/17
1D-natural unbal OR 15-16 bal
1M-5-cd
1N-12-14
2C-natural unbal
2D-short diamond?

but that's probably a non-starter for the 1D opening. I think it would properly load the 1D opening and if partner raised diamonds expecting the unbalanced hand, opener would have some values to fall back on. 1D-3D auctions would more seldom make sense, have to be narrower. Good luck anyway

[PrecisionL]

My two cents:

1) 2NT if natural should be 21-22 hcp. 19 is too weak and I teach to upgrade or downgrade 20 hcp hands depending on As.and Ks rather than unsupported Qs and Js. In one partnership I have been playing 2♣ as balanced and 18-20 with good results in pair competitions.

2) Defenses to 1NT have evolved so well that opponents can bid better over your 1NT than over your 1 of a suit opening bid. (IF they don't play 2-suited overcalls over 1 of a suit opening bids.)

[nullve]

PrecisionL, on 2015-December-22, 08:42, said:

Defenses to 1NT have evolved so well that opponents can bid better over your 1NT than over your 1 of a suit opening bid. (IF they don't play 2-suited over calls over 1 of a suit opening bid.)

That's an intriguing observation.

[perko90]

Kungsgeten, on 2015-December-17, 02:40, said:

I've seen many pairs today that remove the "strong, but not super strong" NT range (most commonly 18--19) from their one level opening bids. The Italian pairs play 2♣ or 2♦ as 18--19 NT and some top Swedish pairs use 2♣ as 18--20 NT or GF. The 16--18 NT range is often frowned upon as being arcane, but could it have a place in modern bridge?

No. The 16-18 1NT was from the Goren age when a minimum balanced opener had at least 13 HCPs more often than not. With a 12 HCP min, having a 4-point range on the 1NT rebid (12-15) is a bit unwieldy. And no matter how you slice it, a 1NT opener, regardless of range, is an advantage to the opening side. So, a more frequent 15-17 is also more desirable. Now with that said, you can still remove hands that would jump rebid NT from the 1m openings, with a Mexican 2♦ showing 18-19.

Kungsgeten, on 2015-December-17, 02:40, said:

Another option, which I'm personally interested in, would be to remove the minimum club hands from 1♣, since these are often troublesome hands when playing a short club.

There's not enough info here to track why you think minimum club hands are troublesome in short club systems. But regardless, moving these hands up a level to 2♣ does not make them easier. They are more difficult. PC borrowed the 2♣ treatment from the original Precision. But there's a reason modern Precision has shied away from including the 5C + 4cM hands in 2♣. It's because those auctions are really troublesome. Perhaps you can give some examples of what you find troublesome about starting these type of hands with a 1♣ bid so we can explore it more in depth.

[rhm]

perko90, on 2015-December-25, 11:24, said:

PC borrowed the 2♣ treatment from the original Precision. But there's a reason modern Precision has shied away from including the 5C + 4cM hands in 2♣. It's because those auctions are really troublesome.

I have never understood why Polish club kept with the original precision 2♣ opening.
In Polish club removing 5C + 4cM from 2♣ is easy.
You can even keep the unbalanced diamond if you like.
Open 5♣-4M-2-2 (12-14) with 1♣ and rebid your major or 1NT depending on what responder bids.
Open 5♣-4M-3-1 with 1♣ if your singleton is in diamonds (you do this with 4441♦ and 440♦5♣ anyway) and otherwise 1♦.
The case where you have only 3 cards in diamonds when you open 1♦ is rare and has never created problems for me.
You will have to raise with 5♣-1♦-4♥-3♠) a 1♠ response, but is this necessarily bad?

Removing 5C + 4cM from 2♣ has much more stringent consequences in Precision. It forces you to play 1♦ as nebuluos with at most 2 cards.

Rainer Herrmann

[lycier]

Please don't easily manufacturing bidding system, it is a very hard work, need a lot of statistical data and superhuman wisdom, ordinary players have no ability to do it well.

[straube]

lycier, on 2015-December-26, 09:57, said:

Please don't easily manufacturing bidding system, it is a very hard work, need a lot of statistical data and superhuman wisdom, ordinary players have no ability to do it well.

I think some of the best system designers are not the best players and vice versa.

[lycier]

straube, on 2015-December-26, 10:02, said:

I think some of the best system designers are not the best players and vice versa.

Well and good.
After all, a few of them became final winners, most people are losers.
For example,Benito Gerrozo,he devised famous Blue Club,no doubt,he was certainly be one of the best of that era due to superhuman strength.

[Zelandakh]

Kungsgeten, on 2015-December-21, 07:12, said:

1♣ = 15--18 NT or 15+ with clubs
1♦♥♠ = Natural
1NT = 12--14
2♣ = 5+ clubs, 11--14. 6+ clubs if no major.
2♦ = Strong forcing.
2M = Weak
2NT = 19--21

I smiled a little when I read this plus the part before about 1♣ not being frequent enough. Add all of the 18+ hands into 1♣ and reclaim 2♦/2NT for preempts and you basically have my system structure.