To Brexit
#161
Posted 2020-March-03, 15:44
Look, Brexiteers have won. Remainers lost. Enjoy your moment! But DON'T complain when the EU are simply trying to protect their interests. Honestly, what did you think was going to happen?
#162
Posted 2020-March-03, 15:49
Cyberyeti, on 2020-March-03, 15:25, said:
Isn't the EU "federal Europe"...
My guess is what you are actually saying is that you want to trade with the Germans but not those nasty Southern Europeans or, god forbid the Poles but it's hard to be sure.
#163
Posted 2020-March-03, 15:55
Cyberyeti, on 2020-March-03, 15:25, said:
That is exactly what I said. You left for cause, for a reason. Now, though, that cause doesn't matter. It is moot. It is time to deal with the consequences of the decision to leave and understand that neither party owes the other anything.
#164
Posted 2020-March-03, 16:10
hrothgar, on 2020-March-03, 15:49, said:
I don't really think this attitude helps discussions honestly.
#165
Posted 2020-March-03, 16:36
hrothgar, on 2020-March-03, 15:49, said:
My guess is what you are actually saying is that you want to trade with the Germans but not those nasty Southern Europeans or, god forbid the Poles but it's hard to be sure.
When we joined, it was the European ECONOMIC Community, the political union most Brits have never wanted any part of and it's been drifting ever closer.
And no it's nothing to to do with TRADING with the Southern Europeans.
#166
Posted 2020-March-04, 05:55
And if the EU sticks huge tarrifs on importing UK fish I really do hope we do not do the same with French wine and cheese ...
#167
Posted 2020-March-04, 06:18
fromageGB, on 2020-March-04, 05:55, said:
Do you have some insider information that NI might be planning to leave the UK?
#168
Posted 2020-March-04, 07:00
fromageGB, on 2020-March-04, 05:55, said:
England dude...
You're going to be stuck living in England.
If you're lucky, you won't lose London as well.
#172
Posted 2020-March-04, 16:52
#173
Posted 2020-March-04, 19:19
shyams, on 2020-March-04, 15:07, said:
Perhaps in London children are taught differently but down my way we learn that the red X part of the Union Jack comes from the cross of St David.
#174
Posted 2020-March-05, 03:39
hrothgar, on 2020-March-03, 07:51, said:
I have never understood Brexit.
Probably in the same way and for the same reasons many around the world and the USA (including me for quite a while) did not understand the election of President Trump, or the reason why Bernie Sanders probably would never be a threat to Trump, or here in Australia why there was such an unexpected (by some) election result
I (as ex-UK) was one of many who despaired (for a while) over the Breixt vote but feel I had a small understanding due to my knowledge of the divides and anger around the place
There is no single England, so single UK. There was a flawed process but what happened, from my understanding simply represented the mess and divisions throughout a complex economy and population which can never be adequately represented by a simple majority in Westminster (even class, wealth, privilege, attitudes to Brexit crossed party lines), or a single vote on an issue to attempt to represent the UK. A bit like the error of using a population averaged/mean model to make decisions on each individual or group in a society
Just look at the last general election in the UK where very traditional working class/Labour areas voted Conservative and much of Labour's (eg social democratic/socialist) support comes from privileged inner cities
hrothgar, on 2020-March-03, 07:51, said:
See above for my views on flawed process and lack of understanding by many in the politicial establishment over the state of the UK and its diversity of countries, cultures, and socio-economic divides. There is no one England or UK. The process, however you look at it was rather inadequate to deal with those complexities
hrothgar, on 2020-March-03, 07:51, said:
Also N Ireland. However they too are rather divided. For example the Scots had opportunity years ago to vote for independence within the EU but voted to stay attacked to Westminster. N Ireland similarly has very complex issues based on very old historical and current economic and social divides
I feel the whole world seems to be in something of a mess which current political processes and organisations seem rather incacpable of getting a grip of. Left/right has totally changed. All the old traditional divisions have changed through globablisation, changes in industry/technology and other factors/changes/social revolutions impacting old power bases. I wonder if our approach to democracy can deal with those divides or not. You/one hopes that the principle of Westminster (and other variants) of democracy works despite the break down in the old divides but only time will tell. At least one side of politics around the world is still struggling to come to terms with it.
I wasnt trained in all this kind of thing (I understand maths and science better )but over recent years I have become a total cynic about everything political and feel nothing really matters whichever side you are. The world will progress or (most likely) not irrespective of anything else
#175
Posted 2020-March-05, 07:42
Zelandakh, on 2020-March-04, 06:18, said:
Not at all, but (a) the current agreement gives them the right to vote to unite with Eire, (b) Sinn Fein is a growing political movement in the south that wants unity, ( c) the UK practically insists on apartheid or segregation based on religion in the north, rather than integration : almost half of schoolchildren are taught in schools where more than 95% are of the same religion; 90% of public housing is segregated, (d) catholics breed faster, and while in the 2011 census the catholic/protestant ratio was 45/48, it is set to exceed unity in the next couple of years, I read.
Given all this, and the impression I had speaking to people while over there, I see it as not inevitable, but likely. If the EU imposes border crossing checks, it will probably hasten the decision.
#176
Posted 2020-March-05, 08:05
fromageGB, on 2020-March-05, 07:42, said:
Then why did you write "shortly to be GB I feel", which gives a much stronger impression? Besides which, have you ever spoken with a unionist? I think it is fair to say that nothing whatsoever could hasten the process from their point of view. What will most likely make the difference is more a matter of demographics. Catholics just need to make enough babies that they can win a vote directly. This process almost certainly is inevitable but not to be blamed on Brexit!
#177
Posted 2020-March-05, 08:50
Zelandakh, on 2020-March-05, 08:05, said:
There is some evidence that the 100% protestant to unionist mapping is breaking down, and that a small but growing number of Protestants would prefer to be in Europe, and if that means a united Ireland to achieve that, then so be it.
#178
Posted 2020-March-05, 13:28
thepossum, on 2020-March-05, 03:39, said:
I (as ex-UK) was one of many who despaired (for a while) over the Breixt vote but feel I had a small understanding due to my knowledge of the divides and anger around the place
There is no single England, so single UK. There was a flawed process but what happened, from my understanding simply represented the mess and divisions throughout a complex economy and population which can never be adequately represented by a simple majority in Westminster (even class, wealth, privilege, attitudes to Brexit crossed party lines), or a single vote on an issue to attempt to represent the UK. A bit like the error of using a population averaged/mean model to make decisions on each individual or group in a society
Just look at the last general election in the UK where very traditional working class/Labour areas voted Conservative and much of Labour's (eg social democratic/socialist) support comes from privileged inner cities
See above for my views on flawed process and lack of understanding by many in the politicial establishment over the state of the UK and its diversity of countries, cultures, and socio-economic divides. There is no one England or UK. The process, however you look at it was rather inadequate to deal with those complexities
Also N Ireland. However they too are rather divided. For example the Scots had opportunity years ago to vote for independence within the EU but voted to stay attacked to Westminster. N Ireland similarly has very complex issues based on very old historical and current economic and social divides
I feel the whole world seems to be in something of a mess which current political processes and organisations seem rather incacpable of getting a grip of. Left/right has totally changed. All the old traditional divisions have changed through globablisation, changes in industry/technology and other factors/changes/social revolutions impacting old power bases. I wonder if our approach to democracy can deal with those divides or not. You/one hopes that the principle of Westminster (and other variants) of democracy works despite the break down in the old divides but only time will tell. At least one side of politics around the world is still struggling to come to terms with it.
I wasnt trained in all this kind of thing (I understand maths and science better )but over recent years I have become a total cynic about everything political and feel nothing really matters whichever side you are. The world will progress or (most likely) not irrespective of anything else
There is no magical "go back to good times" button in life, as what came before is only better in the imaginations and fantasies of believers. Life is a struggle for progress, and it works best when we all admit we are interconnected and dependent upon each other. This modern iteration of populism is nothing more than an appeal to base instincts and immature emotions and its purpose is to divide, to make everyone lesser, not better. The question to ask is: who would benefit the most from this?
#179
Posted 2020-September-10, 11:47
01 Sep 10 Sep GBP/USD 1.338 1.285 down 4.0% GBP/EUR 1.124 1.083 down 3.5%
#180
Posted 2020-September-10, 12:13
EU state aid rules to apply to NI and the EU to have ANY rights to UK fishing waters are red lines and going to be very difficult from here because NI is basically not viable with the trade barriers down the Irish sea without considerable state aid.