[dickiegera]

Only QUESTION is does 2NT show BIG HAND 18 or so pts OR


could it be 12 -14 with clubs stopp


Thank you

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[smerriman]

The former. If you have 12-14, you pass. Partner can find out about the club stopper later.

[bluenikki]

dickiegera, on 2022-July-02, 19:18, said:

Only QUESTION is does 2NT show BIG HAND 18 or so pts OR


could it be 12 -14 with clubs stopp


Thank you

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In general: a balanced minimum passes at second turn unless forced.

The only exception is raising partner's major with four. (Support double should *not* be made with a balanced minimum in my opinion.)

[jillybean]

18+ with a club stopper.

[LBengtsson]

It is not just 2/1 but every system that I know other than with a big 1♣ opening system this shows a minimum of 17+

In 2/1 with a 15-17 strong no-trump opening partner will be 18+ Though if partner has a 1♠5♥3♦4♣ shape hand I guess that you can shade it a little, but never 12-14.

[Douglas43]

Playing weak no trump it's a bit harder, I might shade it by a point or so, especially love all at pairs or red at teams. But basically as above.

[mikeh]

dickiegera, on 2022-July-02, 19:18, said:

Only QUESTION is does 2NT show BIG HAND 18 or so pts OR


could it be 12 -14 with clubs stopp


Thank you

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One useful way to think about this is to ask yourself what 1S promised. Even if one is an old-school conservative bidder, responder could hold some flat 6 count.

Is it winning bridge to bid 2N on 12 opposite 6, with no fit?

Pretty clearly, imo, the answer is ‘no’.

The opps are entitled to know what 2N shows, and if they know it’s 12-14, then they can start doubling most times they have the majority of the hcp.

Also, bear in mind that the most underused call in bridge (the pass when one has nothing to add to what one has already shown) is not ‘giving up’. Partner is still there

If partner has enough strength that he thinks your side should keep bidding (or double and defend) he has another turn. So you’re not missing out on anything by passing. Your side still has options, but if you bid 2N on 12-14 with no fit, and they start doubling (and responder has a 6 count), your only options are whether to take your horrible result in 2N x or try to find another, almost surely equally horrible, place to play.

Far too many players, once they progress past beginner status, feel that they ‘have to bid’ when in fact they don’t. Having opened, responder will play opener for 12-14 with no fit, as the most common hand, should you pass on the second round.

Trusting partner is a difficult skill to learn, especially when neither you nor partner are yet skilled players. All too often, or so it may seem, partner lets you down, but those hands are learning hands for both of you. Resist the temptation to bid the same values you’ve already shown and give partner a chance to make a good decision. If he or she gets it wrong, have a discussion later.

[jillybean]

mikeh, on 2022-July-03, 10:33, said:

Far too many players, once they progress past beginner status, feel that they ‘have to bid’ when in fact they don’t. Having opened, responder will play opener for 12-14 with no fit, as the most common hand, should you pass on the second round.

Trusting partner is a difficult skill to learn, especially when neither you nor partner are yet skilled players. All too often, or so it may seem, partner lets you down, but those hands are learning hands for both of you. Resist the temptation to bid the same values you’ve already shown and give partner a chance to make a good decision. If he or she gets it wrong, have a discussion later.

It was very useful for me to learn that I don't always have to bid to show my strength, I can also bid to show weakness.
Pass, I can't support your spades, I had a minimum opening hand that hasn't improved in the auction.
Double, I can't support your spades or rebid hearts but we have values to compete here.

[mycroft]

This has perennially surprised me. But I put it down to "mycroft has already forgotten what it's like".

I love my K/S system, I prefer playing in a weak NT structure, but it's immediately obvious to me that the huge benefit of strong NT is to separate the "other" NT ranges in such a way that the distinction between them can be trivially shown (12-14 vs 18-19). And then, of course, that responder's decision isn't "i'm okay with [strong hand] or with a good [weak hand]", because that hand doesn't exist.

So in cases like this one, I have repeatedly said "the reason you play strong NT is for these auctions. When you get a chance to pass and show a minimum, (silently) thank the opponents and Take It."

I will agree with Mike (as usual) about this being a hard lesson to learn for newer players because partner then has to *use* that information, and weaker partners don't. The bad results they get from bidding are "obviously" partner's fault for going to the moon; the bad results they get from passing "don't look like" partner's fault for being conservative. Frankly, they frequently don't even notice it's a bad result because it's "only -90" the way "going down in game" or "-100 in 6 into +630 in 3" isn't. So whenever I have these discussions, I try to make the other half of the point clear - yes, you have a partner, trust them to make some decisions; but also remember that partner is trusting *you* to make these decisions, too; and when partner makes the decision, trust them.

It's a hard lesson to learn and takes a while - and it frequently takes a mentor to repeatedly point out the places where they did one of the bad things (not let partner make the decision, not make the decision, or not trust partner having made the decision)..