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I pre-empted partner

#1 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2022-August-12, 05:07

MPs, in third seat you hold this hand:

J97
AQJ82
AKQ5
9

EW vuln. Partner in first seat opens 3 (don't you hate it when that happens?!), RHO passed. Your call?
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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2022-August-12, 05:41

What seat are you in are you NS/EW ?
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#3 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2022-August-12, 06:07

It depends too much on partnership agreements to say anything sensible. Opposite my own favourable first hand preempts the choice is between pass and 3 (NF). Opposite some other partners it is a close choice between investigating 4 and blasting 5. You better have good partnership understanding for your preemptive bids.
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#4 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2022-August-12, 06:22

View PostCyberyeti, on 2022-August-12, 05:41, said:

What seat are you in are you NS/EW ?


Sorry, we were NS.
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#5 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2022-August-12, 06:36

View PostAL78, on 2022-August-12, 06:22, said:

Sorry, we were NS.


What's the range for a first seat green v red preempt ? For us Jxxxxxx and out is more likely than AKJxxxx but YMMV
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#6 User is offline   Douglas43 

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Posted 2022-August-12, 07:36

Looks like a pass to me. If we miss 4opposite a 1=3=2=7 shape with the Ace of clubs, so be it. YCWTA.
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#7 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2022-August-12, 07:55

3 at equal vulnerability expecting partner to have 6+ playing tricks
5 at unfavourable vulnerability expecting partner to have 7+ playing tricks
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#8 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2022-August-12, 08:15

I am not sure if I would be disciplined enough to pass in practice, but it's probably the best call. Unless partner has three hearts, we probably don't have game, and even if he has three hearts, there's no guarantee. 3NT can be good opposite some hands but there's no way to find out.
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#9 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2022-August-12, 09:08

Hi,

3H.

I have 3-4 fast tricks, which means, we will survive 4C, and I dont mind getting raised to 4H with a doubleton.
Green vs. Red, I may pass, but at any other vuln. I would give it a go.

A 4C opening would be a lot tougher.

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Marlowe
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#10 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2022-August-12, 10:10

Agreements, as everyone says.

This one is an exception with my regular partner; in 1st and 2nd, no matter the vulnerability, 3 or 3 is "happy to put dummy down in 3NT".

But even with that, gambling that partner has a half-spade stopper, and an entry after clearing the clubs, is too much for me.

I'm with all - 3 or pass. Yes, 5 could also be on, but only if partner has a stiff spade, and there's a chance that if I pass, I'll find that out.

Now if we didn't have this exception (if our 3m openers looked like our 3M openers), I'm passing without a thought, and hoping to make it.
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#11 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2022-August-12, 10:10

My first instinct is to pass because I’ll catch KQJ 7th at green with three small spades cashed on the opening lead.

But on a good day x Kxx xx AQ 7th makes an easy game…and slam on a finesse or friendly opps.

At MPs I’ll let go, but would try sth at IMPs.
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#12 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2022-August-12, 12:20

This was the full deal. I will admit to not having what I would call an ideal pre-empt but I was loathe to pass. We haven't had any detailed discussions on what to expect with pre-empts at various colours and seats, but in the first two seats, my pre-empts are fairly sound with an expectation (or hope) of six (green) or seven (red) playing tricks opposite a small doubleton support. I don't tend to pre-empt on something like Qxxxxxx and a bust except in third seat non-vuln. We do play gambling 3NT so I won't have seven to the AKQ.

The full deal:



Partner got a fourth best heart lead and drifted one off, we were in good company and got an average plus with several pairs in 3NT making between six and 11 tricks. Despite the combined 26 HCP 3 is the last making contract so passing is the winning action on this deal.

If I pass and the opponents don't bid (likely here) I think we still end up in 3NT played by me.
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#13 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2022-August-13, 12:35

This is why preempts sometime bite you. This hand, you'd better stop in 3 and you'll be happy if they come in.
...and you lose to everyone in hearts, and everyone defending spades.

If you're not comfortable getting bad results when you preempt, don't preempt. But you'll get a lot of bad results from not preempting.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
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#14 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2022-August-14, 03:12

Hi,

I think even AJ in clubs instead of KQ gives 4H some play, the 5-1 break
obviously does not help in the current layout.

But on the other hand, the 3C opener is a solid max. opener, for me,
this would be a 4C opener at the given vul.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#15 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2022-August-14, 04:41

View PostP_Marlowe, on 2022-August-14, 03:12, said:

Hi,

I think even AJ in clubs instead of KQ gives 4H some play, the 5-1 break
obviously does not help in the current layout.

But on the other hand, the 3C opener is a solid max. opener, for me,
this would be a 4C opener at the given vul.

With kind regards
Marlowe


Yes, it is a matter of style. I can see that aggressive bidders would open 4.

One advantage of opening 3 is that it leaves 3NT in the picture when it is right.
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#16 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2022-August-15, 00:32

View PostAL78, on 2022-August-14, 04:41, said:

Yes, it is a matter of style. I can see that aggressive bidders would open 4.

One advantage of opening 3 is that it leaves 3NT in the picture when it is right.

Fair enough.
But this may mean, that you may need to look for excuses for bidding on over a 3m preempt.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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