[AL78]

MPs, Acol weak NT:

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Slams are makable in diamonds, spades and NT thanks to an extremely favourable layout (doubleton ♠QJ and ♦QJ8 with South). Is there a way to find one of them within the limitations of Acol?

[Cyberyeti]

What did your jump shift show ?

If you don't jump on a 5332 19 and it shows 6 (how we play), W should bid 4♠ over 3N, now at least you should get to the right game and possibly more. That ♦QJ8 are onside clouds the issue, 6♠ makes with 2 3-2 breaks, 6N doesn't and 4♠ is better than 3N most of the time (just not this time).

Actually by our methods, 3♦ would show at least Q/xx in spades, we bid 2N with small stiff or void, so the auction would be different.

[mw64ahw]

As East I would be looking for a slam from the off if a fit can be found (strong vs opening bid =slam potential).
Presumably 2♠ shows 6 rather than just strong otherwise just go through 1♠; 3♠ sets trumps and you can start cue-bidding from there
If West wants to rebid ♦ (again assuming 6 as no 2nd suit/NT is bid) then 4♥ starts the keycard sequence with ♣ & ♥ controls
3NT is an underbid for me

I must say I have an ACOL playing partner who has rebid 3♦ several times with only 5 18-19 balanced rather than 2NT. It always wrong foots me when I start focusing on a potential ♦ slam and find out we should have been in NTs. The last time their excuse was that they only had 1 stopper in ♥ (it was Axx) and the bidding went 1♦-1♥-1♠-P-3♦

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I like SJS, we dont play them anymore, but I still like them.
The issue is, what hands make the SJS, just "strong" and 5+ means nothing.

Soloway Jumpshifts, the SJS version that got played at least by some world class players

#1 suit playable opposite single / void for 1 looser at most
#2 2-suiter with support for partner
#3 strong NT with a good 5+ suit

Assuming this, East decided to sell the hand as a strong NT, treating the 6322 as 5332,
he showed the type by bidding NT as his 2nd bid.
Nothing wrong with this, other may disagree.

My take is, Rebidding 3D by West should show a 6 carder, denying 3 card spade support
..., I am not sure, it helps / is sensible to required add. strength for showing 4hearts via 3H.

Passing 3NT is also sensible, West has a min Opener.

The auction was ok, so was the contract.

What was shown:
West - Min opener with 6 diamonds, without 3 spades and another 4 card side suit.
East - 5332 with 15-17
And if I look at the hands, the above description comes pretty close to the hands held.


With kind regards
Marlowe

[AL78]

 P_Marlowe, on 2023-February-01, 09:29, said:

Assuming this, East decided to sell the hand as a strong NT, treating the 6322 as 5332,

I wasn't necessarily thinking of my hand as a strong NT, the reasons for my bids were:

1. I have a strong hand with a long suit opposite opener and if I respond 1♠ I may have a problem as to what to do if partner 2m. I therefore decided to get the suit and the strength off my chest immediately.

2. When partner makes the weakest bid possible over my 2♠ I thought that 3NT should show a semi-balanced strong hand with values in the unbid suits. It has been pointed out that partner almost certainly has a six card suit as they have other options with only five, so I could have cue bid instead, although there is a danger of confusing partner with that route.

[Cyberyeti]

 P_Marlowe, on 2023-February-01, 09:29, said:

Hi,

I like SJS, we dont play them anymore, but I still like them.
The issue is, what hands make the SJS, just "strong" and 5+ means nothing.

Soloway Jumpshifts, the SJS version that got played at least by some world class players

#1 suit playable opposite single / void for 1 looser at most
#2 2-suiter with support for partner
#3 strong NT with a good 5+ suit

Assuming this, East decided to sell the hand as a strong NT, treating the 6322 as 5332,
he showed the type by bidding NT as his 2nd bid.
Nothing wrong with this, other may disagree.

My take is, Rebidding 3D by West should show a 6 carder, denying 3 card spade support
..., I am not sure, it helps / is sensible to required add. strength for showing 4hearts via 3H.

Passing 3NT is also sensible, West has a min Opener.

The auction was ok, so was the contract.

What was shown:
West - Min opener with 6 diamonds, without 3 spades and another 4 card side suit.
East - 5332 with 15-17
And if I look at the hands, the above description comes pretty close to the hands held.


With kind regards
Marlowe

I disagree with most of this, if you're going to show it as 5332 it's worth closer to 19 so showing it as 15-17 is underselling it, I would also show a minimum 2452 with 3♦ so not show 6 with that. It also gets you to the wrong game most of the time.

[P_Marlowe]

 AL78, on 2023-February-01, 10:16, said:

I wasn't necessarily thinking of my hand as a strong NT, the reasons for my bids were:

1. I have a strong hand with a long suit opposite opener and if I respond 1♠ I may have a problem as to what to do if partner 2m. I therefore decided to get the suit and the strength off my chest immediately.

2. When partner makes the weakest bid possible over my 2♠ I thought that 3NT should show a semi-balanced strong hand with values in the unbid suits. It has been pointed out that partner almost certainly has a six card suit as they have other options with only five, so I could have cue bid instead, although there is a danger of confusing partner with that route.

#1 what is wrong with FSF, if opener bids 2C or 3C if partner rebids his suit? Inventing a minor on the 3 level to create a GF is an idea
as old as Acol, so is FSF. (FSF is younger, but Gray was advocating it, so the age difference is not huge.)
#2 opener should describe his hand, allowing max. room for responder to clarify this hand type.
How to interpret the 3D is ..., I have not played SJS for over 10 years, how to interpret 3H instead of 3D ( add. strength yes / no )
I have no strong opinion, but I am certain that 3D does not limit the hand, why should it, we are in a GF seq., and I want to know
what responder has.

[LBengtsson]

I have no idea how you would bid this in Acol, but I guess most players would start 1♦- 1♠- 2♦ - 3♠ which I would take as GF not just invitational. What does West do at that point? I guess raise to 4♠. What does East do after partner raises to 4♠ which I would take as doubleton support? Pass or do something else?

I really do not think it is easy to get to slam except if East can visualize some hand opposite as in the hand diagram. East could have other hands where a six level contract could be too high, with a finesse needed or similar. And playing MP you would end up in the ♠ slam when the ♦ slam may be easier to make.

I just think the hands fit together well with no wastage and AK honors in all the suits. You can guess a slam but not bid it constructively is my honest opinion except if you have other methods to show these hands.

[AL78]

 LBengtsson, on 2023-February-01, 10:41, said:

I have no idea how you would bid this in Acol, but I guess most players would start 1♦- 1♠- 2♦ - 3♠ which I would take as GF not just invitational.

That might be how experts play it but in Acol that sequence is invitational. That is why I started with a SJS because I could forsee problems convincing partner that a doubleton is sufficient support so lets get the primary properties of my hand across quickly.

[Cyberyeti]

 AL78, on 2023-February-01, 11:07, said:

That might be how experts play it but in Acol that sequence is invitational. That is why I started with a SJS because I could forsee problems convincing partner that a doubleton is sufficient support so lets get the primary properties of my hand across quickly.

Indeed in traditional Acol that is NF, if we didn't SJS we would bid 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥(art enquiry)-3♦ (6+♦ minimum, no second suit, <3♠)

Traditional Acol has to invent a 3♣ GF over 2♦