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Bid these (matchpoint pairs)

#1 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 02:58

Silent opps, dealer W



Not 100% clear where you want to be or how you get there
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#2 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 05:00

Looking at both hands 6 looks a fairly decent contract at MPs but I don't see an easy way to get there with the systems I am familiar with.



I'm stuck now. I think once the double fit is established North is good enough to initiate slam investigation but I don't know how either player can find out enough to deduce the slam requires either the spade king or the diamond queen to be picked up plus the avoidance of a harsh layout so probably at least 60%.
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#3 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 05:06

View PostAL78, on 2023-November-20, 05:00, said:

Looking at both hands 6 looks a fairly decent contract at MPs but I don't see an easy way to get there with the systems I am familiar with.



I'm stuck now. I think once the double fit is established North is good enough to initiate slam investigation but I don't know how either player can find out enough to deduce the slam requires either the spade king or the diamond queen to be picked up plus the avoidance of a harsh layout so probably at least 60%.


6 is better (can cope with Kxxx onside) but of course scores less but you're in a room where bidding and making any slam will score well.

Bonus question: there were 5 scores on the traveller, can you guess what they were ?
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#4 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 06:44

View PostCyberyeti, on 2023-November-20, 05:06, said:

6 is better (can cope with Kxxx onside) but of course scores less but you're in a room where bidding and making any slam will score well.

Bonus question: there were 5 scores on the traveller, can you guess what they were ?


At IMPs I'd want to be in 6 but at MPs it is less obvious, the strategy being to bid to inferior contracts that score well if they are better than 50/50.

My guess at the five scores:

3NT+3 690
4S+2 680
6-1 -100
5+1 620
3+2 200
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#5 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 07:05

My guess is that at least one table would have played in a diamond partscore --- maybe 3 +2 or +3
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#6 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 07:18

View Postshyams, on 2023-November-20, 07:05, said:

My guess is that at least one table would have played in a diamond partscore --- maybe 3 +2 or +3


Several of ours might do that.
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#7 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 07:40

View PostCyberyeti, on 2023-November-20, 02:58, said:

Not 100% clear where you want to be or how you get there

I think we end up in 6 at MP, although 6NT or even 6 might turn out better.
___ p
1 - 1
2NT - 3*
3 - 4
4 - 4
5** - 5
5 - 6
p

* GF
**also implies odd keycards
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#8 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 08:21

Hi,

we play a 5 card major system, weak NT, with a wide ranging 1 NT rebid.

Pass (1) - 1D
1S - 1NT (2)
3D (3) - 4S / 6D (4)


(1) We dont play weak 2- suited openings, and this is not a 1 level opening for us
(2) 15-19
(3) 5/5, gf
(4) ...

You could argue, that given the Aces / Controls, due to right sidening you could and
should blast 6D, I am not doing it, but you can convince me, that it is right.
And if you blast slam, which will be a 28/30 slam, it does not matter which suit, as
long as it makes, and diamonds will be played from the correct side, the lead, wont
be a problem, it may even be helpful.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#9 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 09:12

Your "West deals, so N is in second seat" brought out my EHAA demon:

2-4 (Strong Jump Shift)
5-5
6 (? I have a Good weak 2 for slam, with two fits) - 6 (? matchpoint greed)

So, there are reasons nobody plays EHAA competitively any more; but it's amusing...
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#10 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 09:47

View Postshyams, on 2023-November-20, 07:05, said:

My guess is that at least one table would have played in a diamond partscore --- maybe 3 +2 or +3


Correct, one did.
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#11 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 10:00

View PostP_Marlowe, on 2023-November-20, 08:21, said:

Hi,

we play a 5 card major system, weak NT, with a wide ranging 1 NT rebid.

Pass (1) - 1D
1S - 1NT (2)
3D (3) - 4S / 6D (4)


(1) We dont play weak 2- suited openings, and this is not a 1 level opening for us
(2) 15-19
(3) 5/5, gf
(4) ...




Interestingly we play 4M but otherwise similar NT rebid and open 1m with 4M4m32. Partner fell off the planet a couple of times.

We started:
P (I'd have opened 1 and we would have cruised to 6 after 1-2-2-2-3-)-1
1 (partner forgot to bid 2 fit by a passed hand)-1N (15-bad 19)
2 (asking, 3 would be NF v 15-16 for us)- 3 (17-bad 19 44 not denying 3)

now partner should systemically bid 3 but just bid 3N ending the auction.
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#12 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 12:06

View Postmycroft, on 2023-November-20, 09:12, said:

Your "West deals, so N is in second seat" brought out my EHAA demon:

2-4 (Strong Jump Shift)
5-5
6 (? I have a Good weak 2 for slam, with two fits) - 6 (? matchpoint greed)

So, there are reasons nobody plays EHAA competitively any more; but it's amusing...

I'm a bit surprised that so many North's are passing, but why bid the weaker suit here?

What happens after
2-2NT
3-any way to find out the minor suit length?
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#13 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 16:57

I guess the auction starts 2 (Muiderberg) - 2NT (relay) -- 3 (good hand with diamonds). What comes after that is down to methods - 6KCB could be a nice option if available.
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#14 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 17:35

View PostCyberyeti, on 2023-November-20, 02:58, said:

Silent opps, dealer W



Not 100% clear where you want to be or how you get there

nullve(N)-nullve(S):

1(1)-2(2)
2(3)-2(4)
3(5)-3(6)
3(7)-4(8)
4(9)-4N(10)
5(11)-6(12)
P

(1) "10-21, 5+ S, unBAL"
(2) "NAT (GF), not-too-unBAL (GF) or FIT (INV+)"
(3) "10-12", any OR "19-21", some hand types
(4) GF relay, slam interest even opposite "10-12"
(5) 9-11, 5S5m
(6) relay
(7) 5 D
(8) slam try in S
(9) 5S5D(21)
(10) parity key card ask
(11) odd # of key cards, trump Q, K
(12) contract
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#15 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2023-November-20, 18:44

View Postmw64ahw, on 2023-November-20, 12:06, said:

I'm a bit surprised that so many North's are passing, but why bid the weaker suit here?

  • When partner bids 3 [1], I can bid 3 and play there if it's right.
  • When the opponents come in, I can bid diamonds and partner can correct.

I'm playing EHAA - I'm allowed to bid either suit, whichever one I think is safest and best. I think Spades this time (although 2-2; 2 might be a safer run).

Quote

What happens after
2-2NT
3-any way to find out the minor suit length?

Well, I'm responding 3NT to 2NT [2]. With the A and the K and the likely diamond fit, he's probably making it.

If I'm not playing EHAA, but can open bad 5-card suits, why would I ever respond 3? Either I have a control (two, in fact), or I have a singleton, or I definitely do not have a good suit. I don't know what your 2NT is asking about; those are the common options in the ACBL. Not sure how you find diamonds unless 2 is Muiderberg or Polish (in which case, the reason they open 2 is that it shows this hand - 2 definitely wouldn't show diamonds).

Spoiler

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#16 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2023-November-21, 01:49

View Postmw64ahw, on 2023-November-20, 12:06, said:

I'm a bit surprised that so many North's are passing ...


I don't play weak any two suited openings and the North hand is not a 1 opener for me.
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#17 User is online   thepossum 

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Posted 2023-November-22, 01:53

Me and GiB first attempt

2NT-3H-3S-4D-4S-5H-6C-6S lol

Will see what happens if I open 1 spade as North :)

Me and QPlus

1S-2C-2D-3S-4S-4NT-5D-5H-5NT-6S

Both bidding 2/1 - had to redeal because East jumped in with a weak 2 hearts
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#18 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2023-November-22, 04:08

The actual layout was spades 3-2, diamonds 2-2, K, Q10, K all offside.

4 would net you an undeserved very poor score as the traveller read 3+3 once and 3N+3(S) at every other table.
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#19 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2023-November-23, 12:21

Late to the thread but I like to think that, in both of my regular partnerships, we’d easily reach 6D.

We play a T-Walsh method, in which we open 1C on all. Balanced hands out of range for notrump, including hands such as 3=3=5=2.

So we’d likely bid:

P. 1C
1H. 1N. 1H shows spades, 1N shows a balanced 17-19 with 3-3 spades


2H. 2S
3C. 3D. 2H transfers, so shows 5+ spades and is mandatory, since responder can be very light…we rarely pass 1C with a 5 card major
3C shows diamonds, gf, at least 5=4 and, if 5=4, some doubt about notrump. 3D shows a liking for diamonds

3H. Ambiguous. Could be a cuebid in support of a diamond slam try or could be heart values, stiff club and doubt about 3N
3S. Shows spade support and thus, since we bid 3D last round, either 3=4 or 3=5 in spades/diamonds and since responder is unlikely to bid 3N, forward going


After this, I think responder likely bids 4C and the auction pretty much can’t end below 6D. In some plausible sequences, somebody bids 5N offering a choice of slams, but both players would/should opt for diamonds, catering to 4-1 spades. Even at mps, I think 6D is the best contract, especially given that responder is a passed hand and, in a matchpoint field, most pairs don’t have the tools needed to have an informed decision.
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