[thepossum]

Anyone able to provide or even consider taking investment in a half decent Bridge playing robot able to sit quietly and deal and read its cards and bid and play

One or more would be useful occasionally. Maybe a pair is optimal

We all know there is software at a half acceptable level. The rest must be easy

Thinking outside the box here. It doesn't need human type movement. Just the ability to scan 13 cards and bid and feed out individual cards when needed lol

[pescetom]

There isn't enough money left in f2f bridge to justify even a more sensible proposal like this.

[thepossum]

pescetom, on 2023-December-27, 07:49, said:

There isn't enough money left in f2f bridge to justify even a more sensible proposal like this.

Sad

I'm working on the design in my head

I'm thinking a little extendable neck with a scanner to read the table is required

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2023-December-27, 07:49, said:

There isn't enough money left in f2f bridge to justify even a more sensible proposal like this.

We are about to purchase a dealing machine, but perhaps we should be getting this!
or better still, have everyone bring a laptop to the game.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2023-December-27, 21:34, said:

We are about to purchase a dealing machine, but perhaps we should be getting this!
or better still, have everyone bring a laptop to the game.

It's clearly a far superior proposal to a dealing machine, as it eliminates the whole business of preparing boards and moving boards, as well as giving players and TD a record of cards played. Of course it costs even more too.
But ultimately it highlights the paradox of continuing to play with paper cards in the first place, as you imply. In my club we already use our phones to handle scoring and movements, it would be relatively trivial to add bidding and card play. Obviously the RA is deaf in that ear, but I am trying to convince them to at least add bidding and use it when screens are in use (eliminating the bidding tray and related myriad of eminently avoidable infractions).

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2023-December-28, 03:55, said:

It's clearly a far superior proposal to a dealing machine, as it eliminates the whole business of preparing boards and moving boards, as well as giving players and TD a record of cards played. Of course it costs even more too.
But ultimately it highlights the paradox of continuing to play with paper cards in the first place, as you imply. In my club we already use our phones to handle scoring and movements, it would be relatively trivial to add bidding and card play. Obviously the RA is deaf in that ear, but I am trying to convince them to at least add bidding and use it when screens are in use (eliminating the bidding tray and related myriad of eminently avoidable infractions).

You are a step ahead of us, we still use BridgeMates for scoring and hear the frequent "Phones off please", "Turn that phone off!!!", "If I hear that phone again I will..." which always gets a comment from me, what a ridiculous rule, all the more so because it is not enforced.

But I digress, I was giving a mini lesson yesterday and had the 4 players signed onto BBO. The ability to manipulate the hands is far superior to manually creating hands, we could instantly replay tricks, bidding or the entire deal. The players were already familiar with BBO as so many bridge players are. I hope it doesn't take a decade for the cards to disappear from clubs.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2023-December-28, 21:15, said:

You are a step ahead of us, we still use BridgeMates for scoring and hear the frequent "Phones off please", "Turn that phone off!!!", "If I hear that phone again I will..." which always gets a comment from me, what a ridiculous rule, all the more so because it is not enforced.

But I digress, I was giving a mini lesson yesterday and had the 4 players signed onto BBO. The ability to manipulate the hands is far superior to manually creating hands, we could instantly replay tricks, bidding or the entire deal. The players were already familiar with BBO as so many bridge players are. I hope it doesn't take a decade for the cards to disappear from clubs.

Our official attitude towards phones is somewhat schizophrenic, because the RA encourages us to use their app during tournaments (and we do), but the regulations still state that phones must be turned off. Of course that was totally unrealistic in the first place and with the excuse of the app I ignore it. Luckily I've not yet had reason to assume people were using phones to swap information about the hands and scores, which is of course a real possibility and my main concern. And we never had a real problem of people making or receiving calls - these days people are more likely to exchange messages instead, and when a phone does ring during play it is often a moment of hilarity (for the choice of sound) rather than irritation.

As for the cards disappearing in a decade, I would settle realistically for the bidding box disappearing and the club surviving, with a mix of cards plus electronic play. There are some things like teaching and serious competition that practically require electronic play, but also plenty of room for social play with cards which many club members still consider fundamental. Retaining viable membership for a decade will be a huge challenge, however successfully we navigate the move towards electronic play.

[AL78]

jillybean, on 2023-December-28, 21:15, said:

You are a step ahead of us, we still use BridgeMates for scoring and hear the frequent "Phones off please", "Turn that phone off!!!", "If I hear that phone again I will..." which always gets a comment from me, what a ridiculous rule, all the more so because it is not enforced.

But I digress, I was giving a mini lesson yesterday and had the 4 players signed onto BBO. The ability to manipulate the hands is far superior to manually creating hands, we could instantly replay tricks, bidding or the entire deal. The players were already familiar with BBO as so many bridge players are. I hope it doesn't take a decade for the cards to disappear from clubs.

It is not a ridiculous rule to have phones turned off during a duplicate session. It is thoughtless and a nuisance to be interrupted by a phone going off during play when trying to concentrate. If you are so important that you cannot do without your phone and MUST be contactable during a duplicate session, maybe you should stay at home on standby or put it on silent.

[pescetom]

AL78, on 2023-December-29, 05:45, said:

It is not a ridiculous rule to have phones turned off during a duplicate session. It is thoughtless and a nuisance to be interrupted by a phone going off during play when trying to concentrate. If you are so important that you cannot do without your phone and MUST be contactable during a duplicate session, maybe you should stay at home on standby or put it on silent.

That was a reasonable (if unrealistic) argument twenty years ago, now it seems frankly silly. Phones are no longer uniquely or even primarily about voice calls and many if not most people are unwilling to give up contact with their virtual world for several hours (or even for an entire round).

Ignoring or fighting this is pissing against the wind as I see it, it makes more sense to enlist phones to improve the game experience instead.

[jillybean]

AL78, on 2023-December-29, 05:45, said:

It is not a ridiculous rule to have phones turned off during a duplicate session. It is thoughtless and a nuisance to be interrupted by a phone going off during play when trying to concentrate. If you are so important that you cannot do without your phone and MUST be contactable during a duplicate session, maybe you should stay at home on standby or put it on silent.

It used to annoy me and distract me, it is inconsiderate but now I find it more funny than annoying. I would love to get a group of players with entertaining ring tones set their phones to go off at the end of each round and see how creative the TD can get in enforcing the rule.

Didn't this all start off with players handing their phones over to the TD at Nationals? I expect if I ever played in the Bermuda Bowl, phones would be on silent.

I think we'd do much better to make a gentle reminder to switch phones to silent before the game. I doubt many people intentionally leave their phones on during a game, they just forget to put it on silent. If we are moving to electronic bridge this becomes more important, people will get used to it as they did bidding boxes but there will be the occasional accident.
Of course there are repeat offenders, similar to the repeat facial gestures and huffs during an auction, let's address those people and leave the rest of the players alone.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2023-December-29, 08:54, said:

It used to annoy me and distract me, it is inconsiderate but now I find it more funny than annoying. I would love to get a group of players with entertaining ring tones set their phones to go off at the end of each round and see how creative the TD can get in enforcing the rule.

Didn't this all start off with players handing their phones over to the TD at Nationals? I expect if I ever played in the Bermuda Bowl, phones would be on silent.

I think we'd do much better to make a gentle reminder to switch phones to silent before the game. I doubt many people intentionally leave their phones on during a game, they just forget to put it on silent. If we are moving to electronic bridge this becomes more important, people will get used to it as they did bidding boxes but there will be the occasional accident.
Of course there are repeat offenders, similar to the repeat facial gestures and huffs during an auction, let's address those people and leave the rest of the players alone.

I do ask them to silence incoming voice calls, but this is technically challenging for many and an increasing number of calls are via social media apps anyway. As said earlier, it's not a frequent problem and often the cause of hilarity rather than irritation, especially as the person receiving the call is often clearly mortified to be a nuisance or bashfully proud of their new noise.
Using an app on the phone to run the tournament also helps in many ways, as they have to keep the phone with them (rather than abandoning it to ring in a handbag which nobody admits to owning) and it is usually on the table in view of opponents. Because of course the real elephant in the room is illegal exchange of information, but we aren't going to stop or detect that by silencing phones.

[johnu]

pescetom, on 2023-December-29, 07:55, said:

That was a reasonable (if unrealistic) argument twenty years ago, now it seems frankly silly. Phones are no longer uniquely or even primarily about voice calls and many if not most people are unwilling to give up contact with their virtual world for several hours (or even for an entire round).

Typical matchpoint game rounds are ~15 or ~21 minutes. Hard to believe anybody "has" to answer their phone immediately. In any case, why is so hard to turn your phone to vibrate, or just silent, and then check between rounds, or hands, or when dummy?

I also question that "many if not most people are unwilling to give up contact with their virtual world for several hours". I've been to ACBL NABC where there were thousands of serious (and some not so serious) players who had no problem doing without a phone for the entire session.

[AL78]

johnu, on 2023-December-29, 16:17, said:

Typical matchpoint game rounds are ~15 or ~21 minutes. Hard to believe anybody "has" to answer their phone immediately. In any case, why is so hard to turn your phone to vibrate, or just silent, and then check between rounds, or hands, or when dummy?

It is very hard because it requires thinking which is greatly lacking in modern society, and the people who try to excuse or trivialise thoughtlessness/carelessness are just as bad. Unfortunately it is one of those things we have to put up with like the loudmouths on public transport who sound like they are trying to talk at a volume that the person on the other end can head directly, or subconsciously treat public shared spaces like an extension of their house.

[hrothgar]

So, here's the thing...

There are lots of very strong bridge programs out there. Programs like WinBridge, Jack, and the like are much better that average players.
Some have, arguably, beaten world class players in controlled environments.

I think that its a mistake to think that the problem here is that good programs aren't available.

Rather, the real issue is convincing platform owners to integrate existing tech

[pescetom]

hrothgar, on 2023-December-30, 04:40, said:

So, here's the thing...

There are lots of very strong bridge programs out there. Programs like WinBridge, Jack, and the like are much better that average players.
Some have, arguably, beaten world class players in controlled environments.

I think that its a mistake to think that the problem here is that good programs aren't available.

Rather, the real issue is convincing platform owners to integrate existing tech

I actually agree with that, but I'm not sure you read the thread

It started off as a fantasy about building a nuts and bolts Asimov robot to sit at the table, then drifted (my fault) to on-table dealers and then (Jillybean
with my complicity) to use of phones during tournaments.

Having said that, I agree that a big problem is convincing platform owners to integrate existing tech, or rather convincing (obliging?) them to implement a standard interface that allows any robot to play, within the rules of competition they or the RA define. Of course that would require a strong and on the ball WBF and I'm less sure we are on the same page there.

[pescetom]

johnu, on 2023-December-29, 16:17, said:

Typical matchpoint game rounds are ~15 or ~21 minutes. Hard to believe anybody "has" to answer their phone immediately. In any case, why is so hard to turn your phone to vibrate, or just silent, and then check between rounds, or hands, or when dummy?

There is indeed no real issue (as already said) of people who await or receive incoming calls, for us it happens maybe 1 call in 3 tournaments. But we do have many people who cannot resist checking messages and news for more than 15-21 minutes, or simply at the first occasion they have nothing else to do.

johnu, on 2023-December-29, 16:17, said:

I also question that "many if not most people are unwilling to give up contact with their virtual world for several hours".

Not sure if we live on the same planet then. Unwilling and incapable are not the same thing... running a club is also about keeping people happy.

AL78, on 2023-December-29, 17:34, said:

It is very hard because it requires thinking which is greatly lacking in modern society, and the people who try to excuse or trivialise thoughtlessness/carelessness are just as bad. Unfortunately it is one of those things we have to put up with like the loudmouths on public transport who sound like they are trying to talk at a volume that the person on the other end can head directly, or subconsciously treat public shared spaces like an extension of their house.

There is a subtle distinction between trivialisation of an obnoxious phenomenon and recognition that it has become trivial (and self-extinguishing). For the rest, I think you know that that I am a spirit much like you, down to arriving on a bicycle... but time moves on and nothing bar climate change is evolving faster than our relationship with a phone.

[hrothgar]

pescetom, on 2023-December-30, 15:59, said:

I actually agree with that, but I'm not sure you read the thread

It started off as a fantasy about building a nuts and bolts Asimov robot to sit at the table, then drifted (my fault) to on-table dealers and then (Jillybean
with my complicity) to use of phones during tournaments.

thanks for the correction