[jillybean]

2♦* (3♣) 3♥
*2way Multi weak 2 in Major or strong balanced
Vul vs. NV. MP's

How do you play 3♥, and is your method common?

[sfi]

"Pass or correct", i.e. to play if partner has the weak 2 in hearts, is I believe almost universal.

[DavidKok]

My meta rule for competitive auctions after a multi is that the meaning of 3♥ and up, if still available, remain unchanged. In particular:

• 3♥ - at least 3-3 in the majors, pass or correct, may have better support for spades.
  
• 3♠ - at least 3=4 in the majors, pass or correct, may have better support for hearts.
  
• 3NT - to play.
  
• 4♣ - transfer me into your suit. Very wide ranging.
  
• 4♦ - bid your suit. Very wide ranging.
  
• 4♥ - pass or correct, very wide ranging.
  
• 4♠ - to play, do not bid more than this. Can be shorter spades and a 'read' of opener's major suit.

I also have some rules about double and 3♦ here, but they didn't come up while I played it.

[jillybean]

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[DavidKok]

For almost any opening, but for artificial weak openings in particular, I think it is more important to be familiar with your continuations on competitive auctions than with your constructive system. After a weak opening you can expect the opponents to be in the auction frequently. My notes on the Wagner, i.e. multi, contain a lot of rules for dealing with the most common interference of X, 2♥ and 2♠, as well as a set of general rules for dealing with higher level interference, fourth hand interference and more. The constructive system is also relevant, though probably less so on balance. I think it is a good idea to make agreements about sequences like this one.

As an aside, if North thought that 3♥ showed hearts I think they should raise. The three-card support, limited wasted values opposite presumed spade shortage, and shortness in the opps' suit are all good signs. And the vulnerability is good for taking a risk. Also I think if 3♥ is natural it should also be forcing, but I'd raise even if it was NF.

[mw64ahw]

jillybean, on 2024-February-29, 16:02, said:

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Looks too weak for me to bid at unfavourable

[mw64ahw]

DavidKok, on 2024-February-29, 15:13, said:

My meta rule for competitive auctions after a multi is that the meaning of 3♥ and up, if still available, remain unchanged. In particular:

• 3♥ - at least 3-3 in the majors, pass or correct, may have better support for spades.
• 3♠ - at least 3=4 in the majors, pass or correct, may have better support for hearts.
• 3NT - to play.
• 4♣ - transfer me into your suit. Very wide ranging.
• 4♦ - bid your suit. Very wide ranging.
• 4♥ - pass or correct, very wide ranging.
• 4♠ - to play, do not bid more than this. Can be shorter spades and a 'read' of opener's major suit.

I also have some rules about double and 3♦ here, but they didn't come up while I played it.

Any caveats because of the vulnerability or strength of the balanced hand. I play the balanced hand as 24-27 so have no issues with biding a Bust 3-3.

[shyams]

jillybean, on 2024-February-29, 16:02, said:

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If no prior agreement and working off first principles, I'd assume partner's 3♥ is P/C and accordingly correct to 3♠.
If things go wrong, I'll take responsibility for the debacle.

[sfi]

DavidKok, on 2024-February-29, 15:13, said:

• 4♣ - transfer me into your suit. Very wide ranging.
  
• 4♦ - bid your suit. Very wide ranging.
  
• 4♥ - pass or correct, very wide ranging.
  
• 4♠ - to play, do not bid more than this. Can be shorter spades and a 'read' of opener's major suit.

Is 4H really pass or correct for you? One of the benefits of playing 4C/D this way is you regain the ability to play game in your own major suit.

[jillybean]

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mw64ahw, on 2024-February-29, 16:21, said:

Looks too weak for me to bid at unfavourable

These were my thoughts too. Playing against reasonably experienced pair.
I have a little experience with Multi, my partner has none.

After the 3♥ bid North stumbled, said "I'm going to alert that as pass or correct", and passed.

After this board I just shrug my shoulders, add an expletive and move on to the next table.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2024-February-29, 22:45, said:

These were my thoughts too. Playing against reasonably experienced pair.
I have a little experience with Multi, my partner has none.

After the 3♥ bid North stumbled, said "I'm going to alert that as pass or correct", and passed.

After this board I just shrug my shoulders, add an expletive and move on to the next table.

I have only experience of playing against Multi, but I would be happy to encounter opponents who bid 3♥ on this hand at unfavourable vulnerability.

[fuzzyquack]

sfi, on 2024-February-29, 22:44, said:

Is 4H really pass or correct for you? One of the benefits of playing 4C/D this way is you regain the ability to play game in your own major suit.

After 4♣ and response of 4♦, you bid 4♠ if you want to be there and pass 4♥ if you want to be there, so nothing is lost for the other major. Other possible agreement is 4♣ = transfer your M or my own ♥, 4♦ = bid your M or my own ♠. The real problem with multi is that after the intervention, it is difficult to investigate a slam with 'other' major, e.g. after 2♥ (3♣) 3♠ (P) the opener may cue bid.

[shyams]

jillybean, on 2024-February-29, 22:45, said:

---

These were my thoughts too. Playing against reasonably experienced pair.
I have a little experience with Multi, my partner has none.

After the 3♥ bid North stumbled, said "I'm going to alert that as pass or correct", and passed.

After this board I just shrug my shoulders, add an expletive and move on to the next table.

IMHO, you should have called the director.

It is illogical for North to pass if his explanation of South's 3♥ is what his system really is. I would let the TD decide if the pass was based off UI.


In EBU land, players can ask the TD to record the psyche (e.g. if North claims his final pass was psychic)

[helene_t]

DavidKok, on 2024-February-29, 15:13, said:

• 3♥ - at least 3-3 in the majors, pass or correct, may have better support for spades.
  
• 3♠ - at least 3=4 in the majors, pass or correct, may have better support for hearts.
  
• 3NT - to play.
  
• 4♣ - transfer me into your suit. Very wide ranging.
  
• 4♦ - bid your suit. Very wide ranging.
  
• 4♥ - pass or correct, very wide ranging.
  
• 4♠ - to play, do not bid more than this. Can be shorter spades and a 'read' of opener's major suit.

So the only way to bid clubs is 5♣ or higher?

I suppose we can live with that, but I would like a way to bid 4♥ to play (either naturally or using 4♦ as a puppet to 4♥).

But ok, if responder has an own hearts suit they can just bid 4♣ and pass the expected transfer.

[DavidKok]

mw64ahw, on 2024-February-29, 16:28, said:

Any caveats because of the vulnerability or strength of the balanced hand. I play the balanced hand as 24-27 so have no issues with biding a Bust 3-3.

I think if you decide to include strong balanced in the multi you just have to accept that you will be losing when partner has that hand type. This competitive structure is too good the 95% of the time that partner has a weak two to start catering to the strange exception. Not quite coincidentally I think it's better to remove the strong option from the opening completely.

sfi, on 2024-February-29, 22:44, said:

Is 4H really pass or correct for you? One of the benefits of playing 4C/D this way is you regain the ability to play game in your own major suit.

Yes, if you want to play 4♥ facing spades, bid 4♣ and pass the transfer. I found that the immediate 4♥ to put it to LHO is more useful.

fuzzyquack, on 2024-March-01, 09:25, said:

After 4♣ and response of 4♦, you bid 4♠ if you want to be there and pass 4♥ if you want to be there, so nothing is lost for the other major. Other possible agreement is 4♣ = transfer your M or my own ♥, 4♦ = bid your M or my own ♠. The real problem with multi is that after the intervention, it is difficult to investigate a slam with 'other' major, e.g. after 2♥ (3♣) 3♠ (P) the opener may cue bid.

Ah, you beat me to it. Slams are not a problem, nor are they in the top 5 of possible considerations for improving this structure. I can investigate slam in the other major quite well after 2♦ with the 3m coded minor asks, but also it is extremely rare that we have slam after our own weak two. And even if it is likely that it is on, the opponents are usually not in the auction. More generally I think putting constructive restrictions on your preempts does more harm than good, and building your preempts to investigate slams is downright silly.

helene_t, on 2024-March-01, 11:36, said:

So the only way to bid clubs is 5♣ or higher?

I suppose we can live with that, but I would like a way to bid 4♥ to play (either naturally or using 4♦ as a puppet to 4♥).

But ok, if responder has an own hearts suit they can just bid 4♣ and pass the expected transfer.

If people are really curious about the numbers I'd be happy to look into the frequencies of wanting to investigate a club slam or partscore on auctions like this. I much prefer having more competitive tools after a weak opening to having a way to investigate a minor suit. Strong hands with clubs should often bid 3NT, or defend doubled, or bid 5♣ anyway. It just isn't slam that often.

[nullve]

jillybean, on 2024-February-29, 14:56, said:

How do you play 3♥

(3♣)-3♥ = good (~ 14-16) overcall in hearts or bad (~ 11-13) overcall in spades

2♦-(3♣)-3♥: almost as if RHO had opened 3♣, but will e.g. double (for takeout) more frequently, knowing that partner either has support for the major or at least five cards (65432 or better suit) in the other major

jillybean, on 2024-February-29, 14:56, said:

is your method common?

It's played by nullve - nullve against nullve - nullve.