[gprentice]

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On this hand I was south and after my 2C bid, my partner bid 3C and I won't say what I did after that but we got a zero percent board. I subsequently discovered that despite playing non serious bridge for 20 years, I suddenly didn't know what 3C was here. Well, I know what 1C - 3C is but, in the above sequence, rightly or wrongly, my brain told me I couldn't pass as I don't know my partner's strength.

So I am attempting to improve my knowledge. We play 2 over 1 and the 2C bid by south shows 11 to 17 HCP. With 18/19 points, south would jump to 3C on their second bid. I have also been advised by an expert that south bid of 2S is better than 2C, so for the purpose of this question, assume that the south 2C bid denies 3 card spade suit and denies a 6 card heart suit.

Is the following table correct for the meaning of north's bids after south 2C. I just made up the 3D 3H bids.


pass : 6 - 8 (9) points, 3+ clubs, less than 2 hearts - 5143 5053 4153 4144 etc.

2D : 4th suit forcing to game

2H : 2 card heart support, 6-9 points, could have 4+ clubs

2S : 6 card suit with 6 - 9 points or 5152 shape with 6-9 points

2NT : 10 - 12 points, either balanced (might have 4 card club suit) or 5242, 5143, 5053 shape unsuited for anything else

3C : good 9, 10-11, poor 12 HCP, 4+ clubs

3D : 6 card spade suit, 13+ HCP, no diamond stop, 1 or less heart

3H : 6 card spade suit, 13+ HCP, 2+ hearts, no diamond stop

3S : 6 card suit, 10 - 12 points

3NT : 13+ HCP, balanced with diamond stop, 2+ hearts

[blackshoe]

North's hand looks more like 7 points than 9 to me. Also, 9 losers, where an invitational raise is usually 8. I think your table is okay.

[mw64ahw]

You have a minimum opener and are not in a game force so Pass 3♣
As North, similar to 'blackshow', I pass the 2♣ bid with the 'quacky' hand and balanced shape. I play it as natural although for others it may artificial. so you revert to 2♥ in that case

Personally, as West I would be competing with 2♦ over 1♥ and expect to play in 3♦ at this vulnerability, which gives you a plus over the part-score.

[DavidKok]

Your explanations of responders rebids are mostly right. Pass through 3♣ are mostly accurate, while I use the jump bids differently. In particular, if responder had 6(+)♠, they failed to make a jump shift on the first round. If that jump shift is weak (4-7) or intermediate (8-11), responder cannot hold that hand type now. As a result, for me the auction 1♥-1♠; 2♣-2♠ is invitational (barring Gazzilli and the likes for a moment), since 1♥-2♠ would be weak. I've also played this the other way around, but regardless of choice you don't need a weak (6-9) and an invitational (10-12) range now on the second round.
Being able to invite at the 2♠ level on a misfit auction is valuable. Often 3♠ is too high already, or you may as well gamble on 4♠ with a close hand.

[gprentice]

 DavidKok, on 2024-September-15, 02:13, said:

Your explanations of responders rebids are mostly right. Pass through 3♣ are mostly accurate, while I use the jump bids differently. In particular, if responder had 6(+)♠, they failed to make a jump shift on the first round. If that jump shift is weak (4-7) or intermediate (8-11), responder cannot hold that hand type now. As a result, for me the auction 1♥-1♠; 2♣-2♠ is invitational (barring Gazzilli and the likes for a moment), since 1♥-2♠ would be weak. I've also played this the other way around, but regardless of choice you don't need a weak (6-9) and an invitational (10-12) range now on the second round.
Being able to invite at the 2♠ level on a misfit auction is valuable. Often 3♠ is too high already, or you may as well gamble on 4♠ with a close hand.

We play 1♥-2♠ as 3 card heart support (not spades) and invitational. Similarly 1♠-3♥ is invitational with 3 card spades.

1M - 3C is 10-12 HCP and four card support.

1m - 2M we play as a six card major with zero to five points. We haven't learnt Gazilli yet but we intend to.

[DavidKok]

I am not a fan of those methods at all, but in the context of playing them I think your rebid scheme makes a lot of sense.

[apollo1201]

Apart the use of the jumps over 2C for which you assign non natural meanings while others might not, the cheaper responses are quite ok.

Since the economical rebid of 2C by opener is quite wide ranging, and contains hands up to 17 points, you need as responder to keep the bidding alive with decent most decent 8s or above.

Although it has nothing to do with the subsequent 0 MP-board, the 3C rebid with N hand could be seen as « too » encouraging, and some might request, especially at MP, a 5th trump or a bit more (HQ looks good, but S QJ look like dubious values).

Correcting back partner to H, in the 5-2 with honor doubleton means 1 trick less to do, should lead to a playable hand, scores 110 as well, and conveys less risk of partner going overboard.

But passing 2C with that is, IMO, definitely not good. They deserve finding partner with a 17-18 count, or W find a cheap balance at 2D and winning the board at 3D (making or going down, same result).

In all cases, the minimum S should pull the green cards out of the bidding box without giving a 2nd thought over a non forcing rebid by responder.

As with more strength, the 4SF 2D would have been used to look for a 5-3 fit, to find a D stopper, to express a forcing C raise, etc.

[awm]

Your meanings for 3♦ and 3♥ are pretty non-standard here. I think the popular treatment is to use 3♦ as natural and invitational (at least 5/5 in spades and diamonds and around 10-11 points). The 3♥ bid is also normally played as natural (3♥ and around 10-11 points). The game force with 6+♠ just starts with 2♦ (fourth suit GF).

Of course, your initial jump shifts can change some of this; many people play a direct 1♥-2♠ as one of constructive or invitational or game force with spades, any of which takes some pressure off the other spade rebids.

[gprentice]

 awm, on 2024-September-15, 03:18, said:

Your meanings for 3♦ and 3♥ are pretty non-standard here. I think the popular treatment is to use 3♦ as natural and invitational (at least 5/5 in spades and diamonds and around 10-11 points). The 3♥ bid is also normally played as natural (3♥ and around 10-11 points). The game force with 6+♠ just starts with 2♦ (fourth suit GF).

Of course, your initial jump shifts can change some of this; many people play a direct 1♥-2♠ as one of constructive or invitational or game force with spades, any of which takes some pressure off the other spade rebids.

ok, I neglected to say that 1M opening shows a 5 card suit, since we play 2 over 1, so 1♥ - 2♠ shows invitational with 3 card heart support. Hence it seemed that the 3♥ bid after opener's rebid of 2♣ had no obvious natural meaning so I invented something. I wasn't sure if responder could show a 6 card major after fourth suit GF - but I guess just rebidding it does that. I used to play Acol until a year ago and with Acol, the majority of people at my club would have no agreement on what a jump rebid in a major by responder showed (apart from a 6 card suit) - so I was happy that my scheme allowed responder to show both invitational and GF. Most people play Acol at my club (New Zealand) but most of the better players play 2 over 1.
[Edit - Although since I said that responders 2 clubs denies a 6 card heart suit (is that correct?) the 3 heart bid wouldn't need to show 2 card hearts and six spades].

[DavidKok]

With 6 hearts and 4 clubs I would rebid 2♣.
It is pretty common when dealt that shape to rebid 2♥ with a minimum and 2♣ with extras, intending to bid again to show the extra heart. Personally I think even with a minimum it is good to bid the clubs.

[nullve]

 DavidKok, on 2024-September-15, 06:23, said:

With 6 hearts and 4 clubs I would rebid 2♣.
It is pretty common when dealt that shape to rebid 2♥ with a minimum and 2♣ with extras, intending to bid again to show the extra heart. Personally I think even with a minimum it is good to bid the clubs.

Then what are your methods over 1♥-1♠; 2♣-2N?

[DavidKok]

Everything natural, opener has to decide between pass and 3♥ with a minimum.

[nullve]

 DavidKok, on 2024-September-15, 07:37, said:

Everything natural, opener has to decide between pass and 3♥ with a minimum.

3♥ over 1♥-1♠; 2♣-2N is NF? If so, how do you force to game with the same shape?

[apollo1201]

 DavidKok, on 2024-September-15, 07:37, said:

Everything natural, opener has to decide between pass and 3♥ with a minimum.

And 3D with à forcing 55 or 64, I guess?

Then 3H asks, and 3S 55 / 3NT 64? So that responder can place the contract?

Artificial but no other way to show a good hand that wants to be in game now we know there are about 11 more or less balanced opposite.

[DavidKok]

1♥-1♠; 2♣-2NT; 3♦ is 4SGF for me, and inquires about a doubleton in hearts, a fifth spade, or the quality of the diamond stop. Since responder has denied four clubs I think there are no responding issues - only 4=1=5=3 might have a problem, and surely that hand type can afford to claim that the diamond stop is good enough. I don't have a way to show a GF 55 on this start.

The 3♥ rebid for me is NF and asks responder to evaluate their hand for hearts. If you rebid 2♥ last round you might instead bid 1♥-1♠; 2♥-2NT; ? and now be stuck deciding whether to pass or introduce the clubs at the 3-level, opener's problem deciding between 2NT and 3♥ in my approach is somewhat similar. It would make a lot of sense to play this as GF with six hearts instead.

This start to the auction is awkward. In fact, most 1X-1Y; 2Z-2NT auctions aren't terrific, in my experience. By rebidding the minor suit with a 6-4 we save bidding space and find a possible club partial, which in my experience matters more than the relative upsides and downsides should responder bid 2NT. It also gains quite a bit on the 1M-1NT starts, 1♠-1NT in particular, as it allows the weaker hand to introduce its long suit more cheaply.

In general I like the principle of defaulting towards the cheapest bid that is compatible with your hand. This leaves maximum flexibility for partner. It doesn't always work out that way, but I like it when my bidding system leaves cheap bids frequent and higher bids, especially jump bids, as more specific hand types.